Upgrade/crossgrade
Posted by: Dan43 on 16 January 2014
Just throwing this out there. Have NAP100, DAC-V1, UnitiServe, PMC DB1i. Looking to upgrade and the following is in play, all on home demo and will take a little while, but I have the time luckily :
1.Ovator S400 currently on home demo, NDS/555PS next week home demo, Supernait 2 and HiCap DR.
2.Options on B&W CM10, KEF R900, PMC Twenty 23 & 24 to reference against the 400s.
3.Devialet 110/170 home demo with above speaker selection/options being fed by the US via SPDIF.
The cost to go the NDS route in considerable, the Devialet isn't so much.
It will be interesting to evaluate the cost to quality of these two approaches, I am NAIM at the moment but the expense required to go the step up is quite a commitment, or perhaps at the end of these tests I just stay as I am?
Dan43
Have you thought of a SuperUniti?
You should be in for an interesting time Dan. Quite a change from what you have at the moment. What's driving you to upgrade ?
I think you have a balanced system, and should stay with what you have - SuperUniti into Ovator400s is not a bad idea, if you like what it does...
The Superuniti could be a good/sensible VFM option, its that NDS thats driving me along, but perhaps at this juncture it could pay to see what else, if anything, comes out on the back of the other new kit already mentioned at CES.
Devialet mind is only just above the Superuniti cost wise, will be fun trying to find the ideal set up for what I want to listen to.
Dan43
I've had all sorts of systems that I couldn't afford and now I have just a SuperUniti, UnitiServe and some speakers. It's simply excellent. It may not be good enough for you, but it may be a viable option.
I am going to give it a go HH, I haven't quite found my ideal set up as yet, something is missing, can't put my finger on it, could be SU driving 400s with the US, certainly going to try this.
NAIM Ovator S400 (now bought after testing)
The Ovators I have here have finally run-in and now sound much better, more cohesive, and the high frequency response is close now to the electrostatics , which I found amazing but too punchy (sub-woofery if thats a word) in the bass and they felt somewhat disconnected.
The NDS has certainly brought out more from the 400s, they do sound better. The side effect though is showing how well the DAC-V1/NAP100 actually performs.
Dan - interesting you find the bass 'flabby' with the Devialet. The extremely low output impedance of these amps really grip speaker cones and flabby bass should not be a problem. You may want to check that the tone controls are set flat. Hold the mute key on the remote until the display comes up with the tone control settings and navigate through with short presses.
Dan - interesting you find the bass 'flabby' with the Devialet. The extremely low output impedance of these amps really grip speaker cones and flabby bass should not be a problem. You may want to check that the tone controls are set flat. Hold the mute key on the remote until the display comes up with the tone control settings and navigate through with short presses.
Thanks James,
Everything was set to 0 for tone (bass and treble) but can go to -18db.
Collecting a 240 this week to try that against the NDS/555/SN2 combo.
Dan43
A poor man's 250?
You mention Devialet. I found it much better than 252/300 and I didn't want that to be. You could save a lot of money too with it.
You mention Devialet. I found it much better than 252/300 and I didn't want that to be. You could save a lot of money too with it.
Which is one of the reasons for the demo, and a one box solution. The 110 was a bit lacking but the 240 (poor mans 250......) could be a belter?
Still like the NDS but now feels a bit too punchy on the bottom end, tight delivery though.
Dan43
You mention Devialet. I found it much better than 252/300 and I didn't want that to be. You could save a lot of money too with it.
Which is one of the reasons for the demo, and a one box solution. The 110 was a bit lacking but the 240 (poor mans 250......) could be a belter?
Still like the NDS but now feels a bit too punchy on the bottom end, tight delivery though.
Dan43
Looking forward to your feedback. Originally I was thinking about the same Naim system - NDS/555/SN2. Unfortunately I haven't had chance to try it. You might be surprised by the D240, it is a major step up from the D110, however it needs a decent amount of running time from new to show its best. Enjoy.
You mention Devialet. I found it much better than 252/300 and I didn't want that to be. You could save a lot of money too with it.
Which is one of the reasons for the demo, and a one box solution. The 110 was a bit lacking but the 240 (poor mans 250......) could be a belter?
Still like the NDS but now feels a bit too punchy on the bottom end, tight delivery though.
Dan43
Looking forward to your feedback. Originally I was thinking about the same Naim system - NDS/555/SN2. Unfortunately I haven't had chance to try it. You might be surprised by the D240, it is a major step up from the D110, however it needs a decent amount of running time from new to show its best. Enjoy.
Thanks rjb,
I have both the D240 (shop demo unit I was told it needs maybe 2 hours to warm up) and the NDS set up (speakers are S400), just waiting for the SN2 to arrive tomorrow. At the moment my thoughts on the two systems are the Devialet has tremendous high frequency response (much better than the D110), is a little warmer and very clean sounding. The NDS better vocal staging/placement for me, a touch dryer than the Devialet but tighter bass.
At the moment I can't quite decide which I prefer, the hf response on the Devialet is amazing and it sounds so clean, NDS has better vocals and more punchy driven bass and overall probably a more honest delivery, could be wrong but I do feel the D240 is slightly adding something (the bass is a little thicker, like a very tiny sub-woofer added) At the moment the NDS honesty is shading it.
Waiting to see if the SN2 pushes the NDS further, still living with these two but I only have the SN2 for one day this Friday, returns Saturday.
Chatting to the dealer we were both speculating what Devialet may bring to the market as a source....
You mention Devialet. I found it much better than 252/300 and I didn't want that to be. You could save a lot of money too with it.
Which is one of the reasons for the demo, and a one box solution. The 110 was a bit lacking but the 240 (poor mans 250......) could be a belter?
Still like the NDS but now feels a bit too punchy on the bottom end, tight delivery though.
Dan43
Looking forward to your feedback. Originally I was thinking about the same Naim system - NDS/555/SN2. Unfortunately I haven't had chance to try it. You might be surprised by the D240, it is a major step up from the D110, however it needs a decent amount of running time from new to show its best. Enjoy.
Thanks rjb,
I have both the D240 (shop demo unit I was told it needs maybe 2 hours to warm up) and the NDS set up (speakers are S400), just waiting for the SN2 to arrive tomorrow. At the moment my thoughts on the two systems are the Devialet has tremendous high frequency response (much better than the D110), is a little warmer and very clean sounding. The NDS better vocal staging/placement for me, a touch dryer than the Devialet but tighter bass.
At the moment I can't quite decide which I prefer, the hf response on the Devialet is amazing and it sounds so clean, NDS has better vocals and more punchy driven bass and overall probably a more honest delivery, could be wrong but I do feel the D240 is slightly adding something (the bass is a little thicker, like a very tiny sub-woofer added) At the moment the NDS honesty is shading it.
Waiting to see if the SN2 pushes the NDS further, still living with these two but I only have the SN2 for one day this Friday, returns Saturday.
Chatting to the dealer we were both speculating what Devialet may bring to the market as a source....
I haven't tried the Devialet as a standalone amp, so can't comment on that, however I believe that its magic comes from a configuration when it is used as a complete solution (dac/amp). I would recommend trying it with the native AIR interface - this way you have virtually no jitter and no RFI/EMC noise. I am finding the AIR quite reliable (I was told there were some issues with it initially, and apparently most of them were resolved with the latest software) when the wifi signal strength is around -45dBm.
I'm not sure what Devialet would bring to the market as a source. It doesn't need one. Agree about AIR. Via wired Ethernet it bettered my NDX ( as a S/PDIF source). Looking forward to hearing a 240 one day.
You mention Devialet. I found it much better than 252/300 and I didn't want that to be. You could save a lot of money too with it.
Which is one of the reasons for the demo, and a one box solution. The 110 was a bit lacking but the 240 (poor mans 250......) could be a belter?
Still like the NDS but now feels a bit too punchy on the bottom end, tight delivery though.
Dan43
Looking forward to your feedback. Originally I was thinking about the same Naim system - NDS/555/SN2. Unfortunately I haven't had chance to try it. You might be surprised by the D240, it is a major step up from the D110, however it needs a decent amount of running time from new to show its best. Enjoy.
Thanks rjb,
I have both the D240 (shop demo unit I was told it needs maybe 2 hours to warm up) and the NDS set up (speakers are S400), just waiting for the SN2 to arrive tomorrow. At the moment my thoughts on the two systems are the Devialet has tremendous high frequency response (much better than the D110), is a little warmer and very clean sounding. The NDS better vocal staging/placement for me, a touch dryer than the Devialet but tighter bass.
At the moment I can't quite decide which I prefer, the hf response on the Devialet is amazing and it sounds so clean, NDS has better vocals and more punchy driven bass and overall probably a more honest delivery, could be wrong but I do feel the D240 is slightly adding something (the bass is a little thicker, like a very tiny sub-woofer added) At the moment the NDS honesty is shading it.
Waiting to see if the SN2 pushes the NDS further, still living with these two but I only have the SN2 for one day this Friday, returns Saturday.
Chatting to the dealer we were both speculating what Devialet may bring to the market as a source....
I haven't tried the Devialet as a standalone amp, so can't comment on that, however I believe that its magic comes from a configuration when it is used as a complete solution (dac/amp). I would recommend trying it with the native AIR interface - this way you have virtually no jitter and no RFI/EMC noise. I am finding the AIR quite reliable (I was told there were some issues with it initially, and apparently most of them were resolved with the latest software) when the wifi signal strength is around -45dBm.
Hi,
I have the D240 set up as a DAC/AMP, two sources for comparison being both the UnitiServe and a MacBookPro running JRiver, Spotify, iTunes (just to test). I have AIR running also, works extremely well, just listening to RUSH Moving Pictures 24/96 from both the US and then MBP (using both AIR and USB 2.0 AudioQuest Diamond cable direct) I have copies of WAV and uncompressed FLAC, and the D240 does have a slight bass bias still, but I am still settling in.
Enjoy, plenty to play with there 
I'm not sure what Devialet would bring to the market as a source. It doesn't need one. Agree about AIR. Via wired Ethernet it bettered my NDX ( as a S/PDIF source). Looking forward to hearing a 240 one day.
That what we were discussing, is there a need for a dedicated source such as the UnitiServe for inclusive ripping and storage and maybe deeper software integration directly through their systems?. Like you say does it really need one as a Mac laptop is working just fine, but we were wondering what Devialet may be introducing to expand their range, if they feel they need to, just two chaps chatting.
I'm not sure what Devialet would bring to the market as a source. It doesn't need one. Agree about AIR. Via wired Ethernet it bettered my NDX ( as a S/PDIF source). Looking forward to hearing a 240 one day.
That what we were discussing, is there a need for a dedicated source such as the UnitiServe for inclusive ripping and storage and maybe deeper software integration directly through their systems?. Like you say does it really need one as a Mac laptop is working just fine, but we were wondering what Devialet may be introducing to expand their range, if they feel they need to, just two chaps chatting.
I have thought about it myself and have decided not to introduce another box. I do all the ripping with the XLD into iTunes (ALAC) running on an iMac and then I use AIR to stream it directly the D240. The iMac is connected to a Synology 213j NAS. Works excellent, however I am looking forward for Devialet to introduce uPnP (apparently they are working on it) , so I can stream directly from the NAS.
I'm not sure what Devialet would bring to the market as a source. It doesn't need one. Agree about AIR. Via wired Ethernet it bettered my NDX ( as a S/PDIF source). Looking forward to hearing a 240 one day.
That what we were discussing, is there a need for a dedicated source such as the UnitiServe for inclusive ripping and storage and maybe deeper software integration directly through their systems?. Like you say does it really need one as a Mac laptop is working just fine, but we were wondering what Devialet may be introducing to expand their range, if they feel they need to, just two chaps chatting.
I have thought about it myself and have decided not to introduce another box. I do all the ripping with the XLD into iTunes (ALAC) running on an iMac and then I use AIR to stream it directly the D240. The iMac is connected to a Synology 213j NAS. Works excellent, however I am looking forward for Devialet to introduce uPnP (apparently they are working on it) , so I can stream directly from the NAS.
That is a good sounding set up, what you suggest is probably the one thing missing for now, the Mac is the connection via AIR/USB/Ethernet, so whatever it plays the D240 will also play out, YouTube, Spotify, iTunes for example rather than a stream through uPnP software/NAS.
The D240 is excellent at this MBP/iTunes way of integrating in my view, just uPnP to complete the set.
Dan43, how is the audition going? I am interested in your feedback about the NDS/555PS/SN2 and how it compares with the D240.
Dan43, how is the audition going? I am interested in your feedback about the NDS/555PS/SN2 and how it compares with the D240.
Hi rjb,
In the end, after extensive testing, I have finally decided on the NDS/555DR/SN2 combo being served by US SSD, placing orders in the next few weeks,
The D240 has a very clean delivery, warmer,and amazing high frequency response (like hearing electrostatics) but still delivered a very slight bass bias, like a very tiny sub.
The NDS/555 came into its own once I hooked up the SN2, the balance, staging everything just glued together beautifully. The S400 then sounded tremendous, balanced, everything came alive and all kit working as one, the music just came into the room, I couldn't get the D240 to do this. To be fair mind the S400 are probably not the best speakers for the D240 and everything being all NAIM I guess we would expect that synergy, but boy once that SN2 connected all the dots that sold it for me.
I preferred NAIMs more honest slightly dryer, truer, delivery compared to the warmer and cleaner D240 and until the SN2 was plugged in it was a close call. I felt the D240 was slightly forcing the issue while the NAIM felt just right to my ears.
D240 via its AIR system was impressive, but its lack of uPnP was a small issue (US was connected by digital BNC-RCA so no issue there serving to the D240), with the NAIM I now have both N-Stream and N-Serve working, but I have to concede I did already own the US SSD.
In summary I just preferred the NAIM sound, and then the SN2 just sealed it for me. If I could get the D240 to replicate the staging of the NAIM, the feeling of the music being in the room, I would e-consider as the one box approach is leaner, maybe when they create their next systems?
Hope that all helps,
Regards
Dan
Dan43, how is the audition going? I am interested in your feedback about the NDS/555PS/SN2 and how it compares with the D240.
Hi rjb,
In the end, after extensive testing, I have finally decided on the NDS/555DR/SN2 combo being served by US SSD, placing orders in the next few weeks,
The D240 has a very clean delivery, warmer,and amazing high frequency response (like hearing electrostatics) but still delivered a very slight bass bias, like a very tiny sub.
The NDS/555 came into its own once I hooked up the SN2, the balance, staging everything just glued together beautifully. The S400 then sounded tremendous, balanced, everything came alive and all kit working as one, the music just came into the room, I couldn't get the D240 to do this. To be fair mind the S400 are probably not the best speakers for the D240 and everything being all NAIM I guess we would expect that synergy, but boy once that SN2 connected all the dots that sold it for me.
I preferred NAIMs more honest slightly dryer, truer, delivery compared to the warmer and cleaner D240 and until the SN2 was plugged in it was a close call. I felt the D240 was slightly forcing the issue while the NAIM felt just right to my ears.
D240 via its AIR system was impressive, but its lack of uPnP was a small issue (US was connected by digital BNC-RCA so no issue there serving to the D240), with the NAIM I now have both N-Stream and N-Serve working, but I have to concede I did already own the US SSD.
In summary I just preferred the NAIM sound, and then the SN2 just sealed it for me. If I could get the D240 to replicate the staging of the NAIM, the feeling of the music being in the room, I would e-consider as the one box approach is leaner, maybe when they create their next systems?
Hope that all helps,
Regards
Dan
Hello Dan,
thank you for your feedback, it is much appreciated. I am glad you have found the right system. I am sure the NDS/555PS/SN2 is amazing - it must be the best 3 box system from Naim. I regret I never had a chance to listen to one in a home demo. It is difficult to organize this where I live and also I buy second hand, hence it won't be fair to ask a dealer for a demo.
How are you finding the Naim system with lesser recordings? The experience I had with my previous system (NDX/DAC/555PS into SN/HicapDR) was that the good recordings were to die for, however bad were just bad, really bad. Also, what about listening at low volumes in general?
Anyway, thank you again and enjoy the music - there is so much to explore.
Cheers,
rjb