Who is paying for your pension ?

Fair enough. A bit selfish IMHO but everyone is entitled to their view.

From my own experience, my last public sector employment include much better pay, better holidays, better transport allowance, performance-related bonus, shorter contracted hours and much better pension aggrangements that were clearly paid for by someone other than me or my employer.

I would like to see the Private sector enriched to enjoy similar benefits. 

mistah

did you post, then delete ?

mista h

Your name keeps cropping up on the "last post" list of this thread, but no actual post appears in the thread.

Not sure if its you, or more probably Hopeless at work here !!

Cheers

Don

In moderation?

Could be. Just a thought. 

ATB from George

In moderation ? mista h ?

hadn't thought of that George. you could be right, but I can't imagine anybody getting wound up about the imabalnces of our nation's pension system to the extent of being moderated.

Hello Don

May have done !! Overdone the booze tonite,will try again tomorrow when sober.

mista H

FWIW i have 2 private pensions which i started drawing on when i reached 65. When i look back at how much i have paid in over almost 40 yrs and how much i get each month its a total joke.

Things may change but as they stand at present i would advise any young person to look at investing in anything but a pension.

Mista h

Hi Mista h,

First, sorry about your pension situation, I can readily understand anybody's frustration with private sector pensions, which are dismal. And the really gaulling thing is that those in the private sector who pay tax, even those who pay tax on what little pension they do get, are subsidising the generous public sector pensions. And I haven't met too many public sector pensioners who are at all grateful.

Second, Hopeless must have also been on the booze last night, and this morning. Your two posts above this one didn't register in the "Padded Cell" listing, even though they are clearly part of this thread. They really area Hopeless outfit.

Cheers

Don

Don

I still have problems with this whole concept of me being grateful to you personally subsidising me in some way.

By paying tax your are not subsidising my wages, you are paying them. My pension is part of my wages. Part of the package that rewards my career. I cannot help but feel that this is actually what is annoying you rather than a specific pension issue. Or maybe I'm just feeling sensitive?

I'm not grateful by the way. I earn it. Some in the Public Sector work at a level the private sector would consider utterly unacceptable. I started my career working contracted 130 hours a week, but doing more. Continous shifts of 112 hours with no prospect of sleep and no regular breaks or meals. I still do 60+ hours and I'm part time! European Working Time Directive has no control over my working hours. Unlike pilots I might add

OK, I am feeling sensitive! And stroppy.

The whole tone of your posts is to assume we are milking it.

Bruce

Don't worry about it, Bruce.

Sour grapes and envy are a potent combination.

I'm surprised that this is still rumbling on. Having reached a sensible position, off it lurches into foolishness again.

To those who think life in the public sector is a bed of roses, with a fur-lined pension awaiting at the end, if you too would like a public sector pension, I will simply say, stop bloody mithering and get a public sector job. Assuming you're good enough of course.

Well said Bruce. 

A few words of sympathy to Mista H and it brings out the worst in the public sector.

Bruce, I haven't challenged you or your work or your pay. Please have the decency to recognise this.

The ONLY thing that I have challenged (and not you personalyy)  is that the Gov/taxpayer is topping up many/most public sector pensions. My proposed solution to this, set out above, was to make the Private sector set up compulsary CARE schemes and for the Gov/taxpayer to manage these and underwrite them to the same extent as in the Public sector.

You have completely and unjustifiably over-reacted IMHO.

Lionel,

Again, a few words to Mista H and the worst comes out.

There is no envy or sour-grapes here. I have done quite well out of these public setcor golden pensions.

Some people are obviously feeling sensitive.

Don

Point taken. I am a bit cross today.

You have however stated in previous posts that public sector workers have no idea of hard work (or similar) and that I should be grateful to the taxpayer for subsidising my pension.

Both suggestions that I find really annoying and portraying a view of the Public Sector I feel is outmoded and unfair.

I'll dip out now Don; no intention to fall out but felt had to make my point-and I freely admit to not understanding the technical aspects oif this thread.,

Bruce

A requirement on all employers to set up a CARE scheme is absolutely right in my view. But I cannot agree that the taxpayer should subsidise it in any way. That would be nonsensical. Firstly it would be unaffordable and require either a large increase in general taxation, or a large cutback in other spending. Secondly, it would incentivise companies to minimise their contribution. Rather than paying ridiculous salaries to directors, and huge bonuses to encourage risk, the private sector should be compelled to provide decent pensions to those who generate their profits.

With a personal pension, for every contribution you make, you make minimum 25% instant increase with the government tax relief. Then you could have an average of 7% rise per year growth. Not too bad. Annuities are bad at the moment, but hopefully they'll improve over the years.

Hello Count

You say annuities are bad at the moment,that has got to be the understatement of the year.

Other half at this present time is looking at stocks and shares,rather buying an annuity.

Mista h

I am afraid that annuities are just another example of the banking sector having the investor by the short and curlies.

I stopped paying into a private pension in 1994, because it was clear that I was spending the entire balance of my take home pay beyond paying the essentials on an investment that at best would fail to pay my rent and council tax.

I could have done that till I was retirement age and popped my clogs the day before and been miserable all my life!

I take the view that I enjoy a fag and pint or even a glass of something stronger, and apart from cycling, take the view that I sincerely  hope to reduce my life expectancy, and enjoying to the process!

And before anyone says that I'll cost the tax payer a fortune to treat me for cancer or other related disease, I can promise any reading this, that I'd refuse treatment.

I have already adamantly refused cancer treatment as an adolescent, when I had a scare which appeared to be bone cancer. I said that it would take its course, much to consternation of the Doctors and my family. I meant it then and mean it now. As it transpired, I had an infection of the hip joint that sent my white cell count sky-rocketing, and after six weeks I was very much better. No treatment at all beyond rest in reality.

I believe the only people whoi can afford to self-finance a pension are those who really should not need a pension in the first place, because if they saved carefully in the lifetimes, then they would have plenty put by to pad out the basic state pension ...

ATB from George

Every day that you can manage to raise a smile is a good one. Never mind when you go - no one is privy to the time - just make sure that you enjoy life as it goes along. Don't heed to much the advice to make plans as these never work out!

Have a loose idea of a set of decent morals, try to be kind to friends and enemies alike, and forget the whole pension business!

ATB from George

Yeah, you keep saying that but every post of yours is redolent of exactly that and some almost pathologically corrosive logic that you have yet to fully justify.

I was a civil servant for a number of years when I paid tax and a proportion of salary towards a pension. Now I recieve a pension I pay tax on that. The tax we all pay goes in part to subsidise private sector tax breaks - that means you, you ungrateful winker - do I bitch about it, no.

It is quite simple: any job has a remuneration package which includes a pension. I chose right; you chose wrong. Live with it; get over it. No sympathy or apology from me.

I did post earlier that I had nothing more to say to you; this time I mean it.

George, I count a personal pension as a method of careful saving. This method of saving get's a minimum of 25% rise and thereafter, hopefully 7% rise per annum. It's also something that I doubt many people think about on a daily basis, but it's a back-up plan if all other stock investments, savings, houses, etc.... fail to produce the desired requirements.

Dear Count,

I disagree. There are tax incentives that merely feed the voratious appetites of the "finance" men, who eat well at our expense.

A nicely fed deposit account can be accessed at any time in case of a severe emergency.

I camre to that conclusion in 1994 as my previous post shows.

When I started to contribute to a private pension it was a choice between a mortgage [not risk free of course] or the pension.

I chose wrong. i chose pension!

If I'd gone with the mortgage, then I have had an asset for life, but with a pension all  I'd ever have done was not quite pay a rent !

Worst of both worlds of course as it went, but better abandon ship when you realise that a pension of small proportions can barely support its own weight in annual charges for advice that one only needs once in twenty years!

And then the [in those days] compulsory scandal of the annuity ....

ATB from George 

George, stick whatever you have in LVLT, it's doing rather well.