Macs and power supplies

Posted by: YanC on 07 February 2014

Have been using an unbranded recharger (cheap) on my MacBook, and I am surprised to hear the amount of noise contamination while playing music through headphones. Terrible and it is even worse during any data transfer via the nearby ports (ethernet and usb). Very audible.

 

It is not that bad with the genuine Apple recharger, but made me think of the potential effect of the PSU on my Mac Mini, which is now my primary source. 

I mean, I doubt it costs more than 10 bucks and for sure it wouldn't feature on any hi-fi component.

 

Any measurements out there? 

Or other thoughts?

Posted on: 07 February 2014 by Jude2012

Interesting area YanC.

 

I have also wondered about this.  I gather that there are audiophile PSUs for Mac Minis out there, such from Mojo Audio.  

 

I wonder whether there is a cost effective solution out there? Otherwise , for me, it's getting into Unitiserve territory in terms if cost.  Also, even the Unitiserve has a switched mode PSU.

 

I also also wonder about the merits of an 'audiophile quality' PSU over an SSD. Which gives the best SQ and least interference?  Or are both needed?

 

Like you say, would be interested to hear experiences and outcomes .....

 

Jude

Posted on: 07 February 2014 by garyi

Never mind the effect on sound, concern yourself more about the thing exploding.

Posted on: 07 February 2014 by Marky Mark

The time of the end is near.

Posted on: 07 February 2014 by YanC

Considering the tremendous computation power of a modern computer, playing music is effortless. Decoding formats, caching and sending data are all trivial tasks.

 

But what about the signal path inside the computer?

I suspect that the PSU is critical, as noise will travel along the signal path and will only get worse passing through the (generally low cost) circuitry before it reaches the DAC. So what comes in must be very important if a PC is to be considered hi end. (or am I totally confused here)

 

I had a look at Mojo Audio but I agree with Jude2012 cost seems high.

There is another solution by clonesaudio which is more affordable but not much customer feedback out there.

 

There are numerous threads here on the merits of CD/Streamer/PC sources.

Personally I switched from a CDS3 to a computer playback about a year ago, but I have slight doubts on the SQ, where I feel separation of instruments (soundstage) suffers. The music feels a little congested when compared to a decent CD player or a decent streamer.

 

Still for me a PC front end is the way to go in terms of convenience. And SQ is acceptable, but I am interested in what others think on the subject.

Posted on: 07 February 2014 by Jude2012
Originally Posted by YanC:

 

 

...... but I am interested in what others think on the subject.

+1 , experience and insights would be cool.....

 

Jude

Posted on: 08 February 2014 by Tog

There comes a time when you have to stop fussing and fretting and let it go....

 

If you are concerned about running the MB from its charger - run it from battery.

 

Sometimes I think that people spend so much time agonising over EM / power supplies - should they place their Naim gear in alphabetical order on the Fraim to improve gravitic resonance frequency response? Will their neighbours new electric toothbrush reverse the polarity of jitter coming from their NDX? My personal favourite of course is cabling but people tend to get upset and defensive very quickly over the amount they are prepared to pay for that so I will move on.

 

You could of course put source first; remove all the electrical issues and streaming glitches by getting a musician into your front room (sorry listening room) to play for you in person. No cables, no UPnP, no USB, no updates and no jitter. 

 

Until you notice the musician's playing seems a bit rough. Are they sick, depressed or just annoyed? Is the room too hot for them or too cold? Do they prefer tea or coffee...?..

 

Would the performance be better with an expresso?

 

Tog

 

Posted on: 08 February 2014 by Aleg
Originally Posted by YanC:

Have been using an unbranded recharger (cheap) on my MacBook, and I am surprised to hear the amount of noise contamination while playing music through headphones. Terrible and it is even worse during any data transfer via the nearby ports (ethernet and usb). Very audible.

 

It is not that bad with the genuine Apple recharger, but made me think of the potential effect of the PSU on my Mac Mini, which is now my primary source. 

I mean, I doubt it costs more than 10 bucks and for sure it wouldn't feature on any hi-fi component.

 

Any measurements out there? 

Or other thoughts?

Paul Hynes has built linear PSU's that seem to have great effect on Mac mini's. Search for that combination on Google and you'll find some stories about its effect.

 

cheers

 

Aleg

Posted on: 08 February 2014 by charlesphoto
I agree with you.... up to a point. Unfortunately every cable I've bought so far has made a difference. That said I still have yet to spend over $150 on a cable. Beyond that I believe the returns have got to be extremely diminishing in a price per difference ratio (except for maybe the PL). I even got my NACA 5 runs used for $125 from my dealer. 
 
The piece of gear that is the most complex, finicky (even the weather can change it) and impossible to replace, is the human ear. I suffer from sinus issues (esp this time of year) and I know from hour to hour, day to day, my set up can sound different due to the state of my ears. "But my hearing is perfect" you say. Really? That is about as confirmable as $10k gold speaker cable rubbed by virgins will make your system 'come alive.' Personally, the only thing that really makes my system come alive is getting the wife and kids out of the house so I can listen to it (we don't have a 'listening room'). 
 
Originally Posted by Tog:

There comes a time when you have to stop fussing and fretting and let it go....

 

If you are concerned about running the MB from its charger - run it from battery.

 

Sometimes I think that people spend so much time agonising over EM / power supplies - should they place their Naim gear in alphabetical order on the Fraim to improve gravitic resonance frequency response? Will their neighbours new electric toothbrush reverse the polarity of jitter coming from their NDX? My personal favourite of course is cabling but people tend to get upset and defensive very quickly over the amount they are prepared to pay for that so I will move on.

 

You could of course put source first; remove all the electrical issues and streaming glitches by getting a musician into your front room (sorry listening room) to play for you in person. No cables, no UPnP, no USB, no updates and no jitter. 

 

Until you notice the musician's playing seems a bit rough. Are they sick, depressed or just annoyed? Is the room too hot for them or too cold? Do they prefer tea or coffee...?..

 

Would the performance be better with an expresso?

 

Tog

 

 

Posted on: 08 February 2014 by Jude2012
Originally Posted by Aleg:
Originally Posted by YanC:

Have been using an unbranded recharger (cheap) on my MacBook, and I am surprised to hear the amount of noise contamination while playing music through headphones. Terrible and it is even worse during any data transfer via the nearby ports (ethernet and usb). Very audible.

 

It is not that bad with the genuine Apple recharger, but made me think of the potential effect of the PSU on my Mac Mini, which is now my primary source. 

I mean, I doubt it costs more than 10 bucks and for sure it wouldn't feature on any hi-fi component.

 

Any measurements out there? 

Or other thoughts?

Paul Hynes has built linear PSU's that seem to have great effect on Mac mini's. Search for that combination on Google and you'll find some stories about its effect.

 

cheers

 

Aleg

Thanks Aleg.  Did you notice a difference in SQ?

 

Jude

 

 

Posted on: 08 February 2014 by Aleg
Originally Posted by Jude2012:
Originally Posted by Aleg:
Originally Posted by YanC:

Have been using an unbranded recharger (cheap) on my MacBook, and I am surprised to hear the amount of noise contamination while playing music through headphones. Terrible and it is even worse during any data transfer via the nearby ports (ethernet and usb). Very audible.

 

It is not that bad with the genuine Apple recharger, but made me think of the potential effect of the PSU on my Mac Mini, which is now my primary source. 

I mean, I doubt it costs more than 10 bucks and for sure it wouldn't feature on any hi-fi component.

 

Any measurements out there? 

Or other thoughts?

Paul Hynes has built linear PSU's that seem to have great effect on Mac mini's. Search for that combination on Google and you'll find some stories about its effect.

 

cheers

 

Aleg

Thanks Aleg.  Did you notice a difference in SQ?

 

Jude

 

 

Jude

 

I don't use Macs, but I believe these are reliable reports. I could post a link to a reliable source but am not allowed to do so under forum rules. But if you google you'll probably come across it.

 

cheers

 

Aleg

Posted on: 08 February 2014 by Jude2012
Originally Posted by Aleg:
Originally Posted by Jude2012:
Originally Posted by Aleg:
Originally Posted by YanC:

Have been using an unbranded recharger (cheap) on my MacBook, and I am surprised to hear the amount of noise contamination while playing music through headphones. Terrible and it is even worse during any data transfer via the nearby ports (ethernet and usb). Very audible.

 

It is not that bad with the genuine Apple recharger, but made me think of the potential effect of the PSU on my Mac Mini, which is now my primary source. 

I mean, I doubt it costs more than 10 bucks and for sure it wouldn't feature on any hi-fi component.

 

Any measurements out there? 

Or other thoughts?

Paul Hynes has built linear PSU's that seem to have great effect on Mac mini's. Search for that combination on Google and you'll find some stories about its effect.

 

cheers

 

Aleg

Thanks Aleg.  Did you notice a difference in SQ?

 

Jude

 

 

Jude

 

I don't use Macs, but I believe these are reliable reports. I could post a link to a reliable source but am not allowed to do so under forum rules. But if you google you'll probably come across it.

 

cheers

 

Aleg

Understood...

Posted on: 27 February 2014 by YanC

Went ahead and ordered a figure 8 power cable from Mark Grant Cables for my Mac Mini. 

I understand that this is a minor change as the actual power supply remains the same, but hell! it wouldn't hurt to try at a relatively low cost. …and the reviews were pretty good!

 

The cable arrived a few days later, and from the first minute I sensed a difference on the sound.

The best way to describe it is that the music appeared to loose a bit of congestion in the mids, which is my main complain between computer source and CD source*.

I must say here that for the first 2 days the sound appeared a little harsher in the upper mids. Went back to the factory cable but didn't keep it. The difference was already noticeable. But I am happy to say that this harshness has now gone.

 

Odd, I know, but true.

So (highly) recommended. At least experimenting with better power cables for the computer.

 

* system comparison:

Mac mini / BitPerfect (firewire) -> Weiss minerva (Hi-line) -> NAC252 .v.

CDS3/XPS2 (Snaic) -> NAC252