555PS v 555PSDR on nDAC: for me the old dog wins

Posted by: MDS on 08 February 2014

Back in the late summer I had a 2-week trial in my system (CDX2.2/XP5XS/DCA1/nDAC/XP5XS/Hi-line/282/SC/250.2/Focal Electra 1028be) of a 555PSDR in place of the XP5 on my nDAC.  Given all the rave reviews on here of the 555PSDR I thought it would be an easy decision.  The 555 was carefully installed by my dealer, and this included a mid-demo fine-tuning of the position of my Electras.

 

Over the two weeks I tried a lot of stuff eg Phil Collins, Genesis, Family, Led Zep, Eagles, Mary Black, Garbage, Mac, Seal. There was an uplift apparent in resolution across all material, though the degree varied. High quality recordings like Mary Black really shone. On ‘Stories from the Steeple’ the strings on the double-bass actually sounded that they were being plucked, not just played - wonderful. Similarly, the acoustic guitar and hit-hats were coming out of the mix clearer than before before. And lead vocals on many tracks seem to project into the room rather better.  The heavy bass on Seal seemed to go a deeper albeit with more prominence, and the different layers within the complex mix became easier to make sense of. Cymbals had a wonder shimmer.

 

But it wasn’t exclusively positive.  The bass on some stuff seemed overly prominent e.g. on Garbage 2.0 the 555PSDR resolved this heavy duty and complex stuff really well but on Temptation Waits and Medication the bass was a bit over-blown. I also sensed a heightened ‘hardness’ in presentation on some material eg Phil C and Genesis.  It was if the 555PSDR was amplifying the digital signature which I guessed might be inherent in the CDX2 and/or DAC. So at the end of two weeks the XP5 was plugged back and I listened to those albums again. Phil Collins’ ...But Seriously had now lost that glare making the album enjoyable again. High-hats etc were no longer as well defined and had lost that delightful shimmer but hadn’t disappeared completely. On Garbage the XP5 retreated on resolution but the bass better fitted the mix - not as well defined but not drawing overdue attention to itself.   On Push it, my favourite track on the album, the 555PSDR certainly resolved the different threads wonderfully and in a way the XP5 just couldn’t manage but the XP5, even with its fuzzier edges, still probably had the edge in entertainment value. It was similar with Genesis’s We Can’t Dance. I certainly missed the crashing of the cymbals that the 555DR resolved but with the XP5 I was tempted to turn the wick up, despite the lower resolution, whereas with the 555DR I was reaching to turn it down. Telling.  

 

So what did I make of all this?  I got the impression that the 555PSDR was sometimes pushing the nDAC or system a bit harder than it was really comfortable with,  like turbo-charging a car slightly beyond its design parameters perhaps. I would find myself more often turning the volume control down with the 555DR rather than up.  With the twin XP5s back in the system has relaxed again and the music, even though less detailed, flowed better. 

 

So somewhat surprised and disappointed I parked the 555 idea and thought I would explore improvements on the amplification side.  Late in the year I tried a 252 and SCDR and an XPSDR.  The latter was only marginally better than my XP5 so was easily dismissed.  The 252 and SCDR was nice. A different presentation to the 282: more laid back but more detailed and atmospheric.  My dealer and I agreed I should reflect over the Xmas break.

 

And then a couple of weeks ago my dealer suggested I try a Powerline on the 282’s Napsc [See separate thread https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...-be-hearing-this-but] which was a revelation and having added another couple of PLs the amps suddenly seemed to exert a much better grip as well as producing more detail. And as coincidence would have it he had just had a 555PS traded in and we agreed I would give it try. That was last weekend. 

 

After a 24hr warm up of the 555PS the first album I listened to was Melody Gardot’s Worrisome Heart.   Very nicely detailed and atmospheric. Fretwork I hadn’t noticed before. Instruments seem between separated. Not quite the delightful shimmering on cymbals I recalled from the 555DR but on the other hand the slight edge to Melody’s voice I’d previously noticed when trialling the 555DR wasn’t evident. Next up Mary Black’s Stories from the Steeples. Double-bass very clear in the mix with the strings clearly being plucked, but balanced and not over-prominent. Vocals and backing chorus beautifully clear and ‘layered’.  Easier to make out some of the words of the lyrics. Mary’s powerful voice can easily come across as tending towards harshness on some systems. Not here.  

 

Seal’s Killer took another step forward. Everything seemed to start and stop that much quicker, the multi-layering seemed to expand even further, and still more detail comes out of the mix. The rest of the Seal album sounded very good, even at quite modest volume.       

 

Day 2 and remembering the 555DR seemed to emphasis the digital glare on Genesis and Phil Collins albums that’s where I went next. On We Can’t Dance I couldn’t detect it. No ‘edge’ to PC’s voice.  Again cymbals not as noticeable as on the DR but still well resolved.  The sound, especially the bass, had a nice velvety, rich feel.  I found I was nudging up the volume control as Driving the Last Spike started. The song washed over me.  As the song develops to the ‘big-drum’ peak there no hint of strain, as I have heard sometimes previously; the sound-stage just got bigger and deeper. On the title track, it felt like Phil C was standing a few feet in front of me. Best I’ve heard this song reproduced, ever.  Rest of the album skipped by with a lovely pace and bounce. It was almost as if the system was enjoying itself. A brief detour to Damien Rice’s O.  Bloody hell - this was visceral!  The clarity, presence and bass grip was stunning. 

 

Garbage 2.0 on which the 555DR rather over-did the bass was well resolved with more and more detail coming through. The bass was fulsome but better controlled.  DSOTM was given a spin. Straight from the off the synthetic heartbeat on Speak to Me seemed to go really low and there was detail I’d not heard before (I thought I knew this album inside out). The intro to Time was clearest I’ve heard those clocks to date and later in the song the bongos in the background came over very well.  Vocals throughout seemed clearer with the differentiation better between the backing vocals. Money bounced along wonderfully with it’s changing of tempo, and the sax had a great rasp, like a bite on a slice of lemon.  That deliciously rich bass was evident throughout the album, too.  

 

Day 3 - I revisiting some of stuff I tried earlier just to make sure my ears weren’t deceiving me.  They weren’t.  Supertramp’s Crime of the Century showed similar virtues: more detail, bigger soundstage and that entertaining ‘bounce’. Every aspect of the performance was better. 

 

In summary the phrases that sprung to mind were: fulsome but not over-blown;  a bigger sound but not forced;  softer and fruitier than the 555DR.  Top end didn’t tingle and shimmer quite like the 555DR but nor was there that tendency to emphasis glare, a trade-off I think worthwhile; and the soundstage had expanded hugely.  It was probably one of the shortest home demos I have had but also one of the easiest.

 

Am I saying the 555PS is better than the DR version? No, but it better suits my system and my ears. Just goes to show the importance of listening to kit in your own system. 

 

A long post, I know, but I hope others thinking of upgrading the PSU on their nDAC might benefit from it.

 

MDS  

 

Posted on: 09 February 2014 by Christopher_M

Fair enough MDS. But I'm talking about potentially maximising CD, not downsizing. So 555PS on the cdp, and XP5 XS on the nDAc for TV/ download duties.

 

C.

 

Posted on: 09 February 2014 by CharlieP

All of these options sound fabulous.  In the end it is about your enjoyment of the music.

Posted on: 09 February 2014 by MDS
Originally Posted by Christopher_M:

Fair enough MDS. But I'm talking about potentially maximising CD, not downsizing. So 555PS on the cdp, and XP5 XS on the nDAc for TV/ download duties.

 

C.

 

I might give it a go when I'm in the mood for experimenting Chris. You never can tell, as I discovered to my huge benefit when my dealer suggesting trying a Powerline on my Napsc.  But if I'm going to maximise my CD replay I guess the next step, now I've got a 555PS, would be to look out for pre-loved CD555 head unit. I've noticed those come along from time-to-time and at relatively reasonable prices (for the Reference series, that is). One day, maybe.

Posted on: 09 February 2014 by Vauxhall mkII
Originally Posted by MDS:
  I know a four-box CD system seems a bit over-the-top but I suspect it would take a CD555 to better it.

 

Ever listened to a CDS3? I compared it to a CDX2.2 nDAC PS555. and there was no doubt in my mind (or several others present) which was preferable.

 

Paul. 

Posted on: 09 February 2014 by MDS
Originally Posted by Vauxhall mkII:
Originally Posted by MDS:
  I know a four-box CD system seems a bit over-the-top but I suspect it would take a CD555 to better it.

 

Ever listened to a CDS3? I compared it to a CDX2.2 nDAC PS555. and there was no doubt in my mind (or several others present) which was preferable.

 

Paul. 

No I haven't, Paul, and I know Naim have discontinued them leaving a curiously large price gap between their top two CD players.  I'm told it has a nice analogue-like presentation.

MDS  

Posted on: 09 February 2014 by Vauxhall mkII
Originally Posted by MDS:

 

Am I saying the 555PS is better than the DR version? No, but it better suits my system and my ears. Just goes to show the importance of listening to kit in your own system. 

 

A long post, I know, but I hope others thinking of upgrading the PSU on their nDAC might benefit from it.

 

MDS  

 

MDS,

 

the addition of the PL's in your system could well have resulted in the improved response to the 555PS. It may not be that the 555PS is preferable to the 555DR for you, just that PL's + 555 is preferable to stock power cable + 555DR,

 

Paul.

Posted on: 09 February 2014 by Christopher_M
Originally Posted by MDS:
I might give it a go when I'm in the mood for experimenting Chris. You never can tell, as I discovered to my huge benefit when my dealer suggesting trying a Powerline on my Napsc.  But if I'm going to maximise my CD replay I guess the next step, now I've got a 555PS, would be to look out for pre-loved CD555 head unit. 

Not really, not if sticking your 555ps on your cdp is the bonza change I'm nagging you about. And yet you don't fancy even trying it! You seem to have totally pre-judged it!

 

C.

Posted on: 09 February 2014 by MDS

Paul - I agree the Powerlines are likely a significant factor here and that if I were now to try an A/B on the two 555s some aspects of the 555PSDR would change for the better.  My guess is that the PLs have sorted out the somewhat over-blown bass I experienced on some music when trying the 555PSDR.  But I don't think they affect the emphasised glare I experienced on some material. Here I'm guessing that the discrete regulators' heightened resolution and transparency at the top end revealed aspects of my system's digital characteristic that I found too much.  The non-DR 555PS's softer resolution at the top end seems to balance that out really nicely.  That's why I emphasised that I was not saying the 555PS was better than the 555PSDR per se.  Rather, in my system the former gelled whereas the technically better DR version didn't.  I think this is just one of those classic cases where system balance wins out over technical excellence of one component.  It wouldn't surprise me if, say, I swopped the 282 for the more laid-back and ever-so-refined 252 and tried the 555PSDR again the balance might change.  It just goes to show the importance of trying kit out in your own system at home for a decent length of time. Patience, a good dealer, and relying on what your ears tell you pays dividends.  

Posted on: 09 February 2014 by MDS
Originally Posted by Christopher_M:
Originally Posted by MDS:
I might give it a go when I'm in the mood for experimenting Chris. You never can tell, as I discovered to my huge benefit when my dealer suggesting trying a Powerline on my Napsc.  But if I'm going to maximise my CD replay I guess the next step, now I've got a 555PS, would be to look out for pre-loved CD555 head unit. 

Not really, not if sticking your 555ps on your cdp is the bonza change I'm nagging you about. And yet you don't fancy even trying it! You seem to have totally pre-judged it!

 

C.

I'm not pre-judging it, Chris. Just saying that at the moment the system sounds so great I just want to sit back and enjoy it.  When I've become fully aclimatised and have a spare moment I'll likely give it a go. As you say, it's a fairly simple and cost free switch, and my dealer who lives close is always up for an experiment or two.

MDS 

Posted on: 09 February 2014 by Christopher_M

You tell me you're happy, then you're happy.

 

In the meantime, could someone techy please post a pic of a dead horse being flogged.

 

Cheers,

Chris

Posted on: 09 February 2014 by The Strat (Fender)

Can I offer one conclusion?  There are seemingly a number of digital configurations out there but once you hit the CDS3/NDS level there's no further debate.

 

Posted on: 09 February 2014 by George J

Very true. The quality is now so fine that it merely becomes a question of choosing which flavour of nigh perfection you like the best.

 

Even at the other end [cost-wise] of Naim's digital offerings, the quality is already so fine that it is in some cases very difficult to articalate any coherent criticism.

 

Time [bringing the maturity of the technology] has finally allowed for many more people than previously to have digital source components that are to all practical intents not just good, but so fine that further searching for refinements becomes rather pointless.

 

ATB from George

 

 

Posted on: 09 February 2014 by 911gt3r

Hi MDS.

I am very surprised that you are finding the non-DR option preferable to DR-spec , as every single PS DR upgrade in my system has offered a substantial improvement in the 'musical' and 'believability' department ?! ATB Peter

Posted on: 09 February 2014 by MDS
Originally Posted by 911gt3r:

Hi MDS.

I am very surprised that you are finding the non-DR option preferable to DR-spec , as every single PS DR upgrade in my system has offered a substantial improvement in the 'musical' and 'believability' department ?! ATB Peter

I was too, Peter, to be honest and last summer I was all ready to trade up to the 555PSDR and was a bit disappointed it didn't blow me away. Moreover when I tried the SuperCap DR to my non-DR SC before Xmas I preferred the DR version and will probably get mine upgraded, but the 555 comparison turned out differently.  As you well know, ultimately we should let our ears be the judge rather than  our brain that wants to tell us what should sound preferable.  That's hard to do sometimes.

Hope all is well with you. MDS

    

Posted on: 09 February 2014 by Ikoun

Thank you for your write up! My only question is : Is your supercap "DR" or not ?
When i swap older version of PS for "DR" version, i changed simultaneously the supercap AND the XPS. The system stayed balanced and bringing everything of the "DR" "effect" without downside. Homogeneity is important.?

Posted on: 09 February 2014 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Peter, FWIW I share MDS's view. The non DR 555PS over the 555PS  is preferable to me on the NDAC. Its quite comforting to hear that I am not the only one - and someone else is perhaps willing to trust their ears over specs and what we are expecting to/wanting to hear.

On the preamps however, I have only ever experienced (significant) improvements with the DR power supplies

 

Simon

Posted on: 10 February 2014 by Ikoun

On my side, i had chance to try only the 555PS on my Ndac, not the "DR" version. I agree taste are personnal and i also have friends who experienced the same feeling considering "DR" and like presently, it was not in a system "full DR". My point is that in each system, a choice has to be done everything "old school" or everything "DR". In this case, maybe the synergy between boxes works in the right way. Long time ago i experienced non Naim PS and had the same feeling about mariage ) it didn't work to my ears even if some can prefer. Anyway, the 555PS effect is dramatic and a wonderfull upgrade !

Posted on: 10 February 2014 by 911gt3r
Originally Posted by MDS:
Originally Posted by 911gt3r:

Hi MDS.

I am very surprised that you are finding the non-DR option preferable to DR-spec , as every single PS DR upgrade in my system has offered a substantial improvement in the 'musical' and 'believability' department ?! ATB Peter

I was too, Peter, to be honest and last summer I was all ready to trade up to the 555PSDR and was a bit disappointed it didn't blow me away. Moreover when I tried the SuperCap DR to my non-DR SC before Xmas I preferred the DR version and will probably get mine upgraded, but the 555 comparison turned out differently.  As you well know, ultimately we should let our ears be the judge rather than  our brain that wants to tell us what should sound preferable.  That's hard to do sometimes.

Hope all is well with you. MDS

    

Thanks MDS am good, anyway how is the old dog ?

Hi Simon.

Maybe it is synergy thing with particular the NDAC, dunno..............!? ATB Peter

Posted on: 10 February 2014 by Paul Labrador

Hi all,

 

I did play SuperNait/HiCap/DAC/PS555/HDX with PowerLines in SN, HiCap. PS555 and HDX on Ovator S400 speakers.

The HiCap was DR-upgraded and sounded much richer, a very nice result. Lots of forum members had a same experience.

That result made me curious about upgrading the PS555 to a PS555DR.

Indeed with the 555DR there was more detail, more bass, better stage. Sometimes almost to much bass.

Surprisingly a change in character came too: the new combination had a really less upfront character and that is not what I like.

So against my expectations the PS555DR was sent back.

(After this test the SuperNait2 came in my house and made me very happy).

 

Paul

Posted on: 10 February 2014 by MDS
Originally Posted by Paul Labrador:

Hi all,

 

I did play SuperNait/HiCap/DAC/PS555/HDX with PowerLines in SN, HiCap. PS555 and HDX on Ovator S400 speakers.

The HiCap was DR-upgraded and sounded much richer, a very nice result. Lots of forum members had a same experience.

That result made me curious about upgrading the PS555 to a PS555DR.

Indeed with the 555DR there was more detail, more bass, better stage. Sometimes almost to much bass.

Surprisingly a change in character came too: the new combination had a really less upfront character and that is not what I like.

So against my expectations the PS555DR was sent back.

(After this test the SuperNait2 came in my house and made me very happy).

 

Paul

An interesting insight, Paul, and I guess not the outcome you expected either.

MDS

Posted on: 10 February 2014 by MDS

Ikoun - re your first question, my Surpercap is non-DR. I did though try a 252 and SCDR against my 282 and SC, including comparing the different Supercaps on each pre amp.  I found I liked the SCDR better than my SC in both instances but the improvement of the SCDR over my non-DR SC was more marked when powering the 252 than the 282.  I guess that was down to the 252's superior resolution.  

 

That said, this comparison was done before I discovered the benefit of putting a Powerline on the 282's Napsc which significantly improved the 282's resolution and control.  I am still tempted to DR my SC as I suspect it would benefit my 'improved' 282 even more now.

 

MDS      

Posted on: 10 February 2014 by Ikoun

Thanks for your reply. So with the supercap, the "DR" version was the winner in both cases - In fact, i am tempted to say that a system "should" be full "DR". I also attract your attention on the Naim's proposition made to the owners of non "DR" for the upgrade at the launch of these new PS. I think they should work together and, if your SCis "DR", probably, the 555 "DR" should win the game... ?

Worth a try if funds admit ;-)

I am not surprised of your feelings, as i said, a friend of mine had the same conclusion, but now, he is full "DR" and it seems that everything sounds right.

Cheers.

Posted on: 10 February 2014 by AMA

I have a different experience.

 

I compared 555PS and 555DR on nDAC through 552/500 at home and I could't find any musical component on any of my favourite tracks where 555PS could possibly match the performance of 555DR.

 

I should say that 555DR matches my understanding of better music replay.

I particularly liked two components: lower noise floor and tighter grip over speakers.

 

Obviously, the sonic difference between 555PS and 555DR is not universal and may differ from system to system, especially from speaker to speaker and even from room to room.

Posted on: 10 February 2014 by Simon-in-Suffolk

AMA i agree I think there is system and definitely room and speaker influence here in addition to personal preference, also  there is the issue of sample to sample variation that comes into play certainly with early production run models. I certainly would recommend on mid to higher portfolio items listening to more than one sample, and have the option of buying the sample you demo. (my dealer assures me sample to sample variation has improved with Naim and was never particularly bad in the first place - compared to others)

Simon

Posted on: 11 February 2014 by Engelbert

I'm yet to hear a system where a non-DR component sounds as good or better than the DR equivalent.

 

I think DR technology brings astonishingly good improvements in sound quality - right across the board.

 

For sure, the pre-DR kit sounds very good indeed - but the DR kit sounds markedly better to me.

 

Engelbert