The Budget
Posted by: JamieWednesday on 19 March 2014
It's a huge step change in how to use your own money and plan your future and my prime gripe about pension funding has been removed at a stroke!!!
Would Richard Reich have the Government spend even more Tax-payers money than it already does?
I believe that is largely why we are in the mess that we undoubtedly still are today.
The only way out of the Brown-Blair [im-Prudent] deficit is to carefully steer a relatively austere cause that does not either precipitate a total economic collapse, or make the situation of the public sector deficit worse at a faster rate.
There is not only room for more public spending cuts but these are crucial for the long term.
Economic development is not generated by the dead hand of State Spending, at least in the longer term.
I am all for less large Public Sector in the medium and long term, and the trimming so far I regard merely as a good start.
ATB from George
Let's try not to junk Keynesian economics just yet. The fact is, this country has been spending well beyond it means for decades, fuelled in part by North Sea oil and the last vestiges of post-imperial amnesia. We behave like a superpower but seem to have forgotten that we no longer generate sufficient wealth to spend like one.
The instinctive reaction to debt is to cut spending if you are a private citizen but it would be a mistake to see the public finances in the same way as your bank account. I wonder what would have happened in depression era America if instead of the New Deal we had the New Austerity. Cutting costs is suicidal if by so doing you depress growth to the point where paying off the debt becomes impossible. Such policies create the mirage of good management whilst generating misery without any real progress.
Tog
As long as we continue to live in a system governed by conspicuous consumption - having the most expensive car or largest home as signs of success in life - we will always be in the s@@t, no matter what any government tries to do. A total change of culture and values is required.
Char
My retort to that is utter stuff and nonsense.
There is nothing wrong in running a flash car, it sure as hell beats riding a flea infested donkey. There is nothing wrong in living in a nice large house in a good area, it sure as hell beats living in a cave.
If you want to ride a donkey from your cave, that is fine and I admire you. If I want to drive a flash car from my nice 4 bed detached house, then that is fine and being as nice as me, you will admire me for having what I want.
Live and let live old chap.
Regards
Mick
As long as we continue to live in a system governed by conspicuous consumption - having the most expensive car or largest home as signs of success in life - we will always be in the s@@t, no matter what any government tries to do. A total change of culture and values is required.
Slightly ironic to see that statement on this forum 
Let's try not to junk Keynesian economics just yet. The fact is, this country has been spending well beyond it means for decades, fuelled in part by North Sea oil and the last vestiges of post-imperial amnesia. We behave like a superpower but seem to have forgotten that we no longer generate sufficient wealth to spend like one.
The instinctive reaction to debt is to cut spending if you are a private citizen but it would be a mistake to see the public finances in the same way as your bank account. I wonder what would have happened in depression era America if instead of the New Deal we had the New Austerity. Cutting costs is suicidal if by so doing you depress growth to the point where paying off the debt becomes impossible. Such policies create the mirage of good management whilst generating misery without any real progress.
Tog
How could the current Government spend it's way out of the recession when the last Government had bankrupted the country with nothing left in the coffers and with record debt? It's profligate spending by the last Government on the public spending, amongst other things, that left us in the mess we are in today. I know you'll blame the bankers but the damage was done way before 2008 and the banking crisis only highlighted the weak economic state we were already in.
Just as it is each individual's own choice and responsibility [to himself] to spend within income, it is every Government's responsibility to all those who vote and pay taxes to husband the State purse. This does not rule out a degree of Public Sector deficit of taxation income over expenditure in recessionary times, but in fairness the Blair Government went on a spending spree of massive deficits in good times, and left the cupboard completely bare for inevitable cyclical crisis that came along just as Blair handed over to Brown. I suspect that Blair saw the writing on the wall and knew it was time to hand over to his old rival.
At least one might call Blair's timing shrewd, though his political legacy is inextricably linked to Brown's profligacy during the good times before the transition.
Brown was handed a poisoned chalice that was at least as much of his own making as Blair's!
ATB from George
Certainly some of it. We have to learn that we are not a first class top-table world power anymore, and we need to be sure that military expenditure reflects that fundamental fact.
We could act as a Superpower when we ran a third of the World in an Empire, but that completely ended with the independence of India in 1947/8.
ATB from George
The money was spent on losing a war in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Total defence spending is about 5% of the total UK public expenditure so I don't think these two campaigns, whether you support them or not, make much difference to the UK's public finances.
I wasn't attempting to make a judgement about either of those campaigns but your post above seemed to be suggesting that they were significant in creating the UK's Pubic Sector deficit and I was pointing out that they were not.
Let's try not to junk Keynesian economics just yet. The fact is, this country has been spending well beyond it means for decades, fuelled in part by North Sea oil and the last vestiges of post-imperial amnesia. We behave like a superpower but seem to have forgotten that we no longer generate sufficient wealth to spend like one.
The instinctive reaction to debt is to cut spending if you are a private citizen but it would be a mistake to see the public finances in the same way as your bank account. I wonder what would have happened in depression era America if instead of the New Deal we had the New Austerity. Cutting costs is suicidal if by so doing you depress growth to the point where paying off the debt becomes impossible. Such policies create the mirage of good management whilst generating misery without any real progress.
Tog
How could the current Government spend it's way out of the recession when the last Government had bankrupted the country with nothing left in the coffers and with record debt? It's profligate spending by the last Government on the public spending, amongst other things, that left us in the mess we are in today. I know you'll blame the bankers but the damage was done way before 2008 and the banking crisis only highlighted the weak economic state we were already in.
The difference this time is the sheer size of the deficit, the debt is so huge that simply cutting a little expenditure here and there is window dressing; it simply won't reduce the overall size of the amount owed any time soon. The austerity programme has the benefit only of appearing prudent whilst solving very little and leaving future generations to wonder why their country became so impoverished. We need significant growth as well as sensible spending and that will need investment.
By the way, all government's blame their predecessors but only the foolish actually believe them.
Tog
The money was spent on losing a war in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Yep....wars dont come cheap.
Mista h
Whilst realising that the cuts do affect some/many people quite seriously, I do question the use of the word "austerity" - how appropriate is it when the govt is still spending many billions more than is being collected in?
Oh no - please let's do trash Keynesian economics - it has spawned the disaster that most Western economies find themselves in. Keynesians are the major perpetrators of watching their policies fail repeatedly, and then insisting that the only solution to the mess they make is to double down on their strategy. Just ask that Nobel Prize winning s**thead Paul Krugman...his gripe is that the Fed here in the US hasn't been printing enough money.
And who benefits form these artificially low interest rates? Poor people? They can't borrow money. The middle class? I can only afford to buy one house, after that it no longer helps me. As Jamie has pointed out, those on fixed income are getting KILLED in this environment, since they can't find any yield. This whole QE, etc. has been nothing but a huge wealth transfer to the 1%...because that's who uses uber cheap credit, and where most of the printed money has landed.
You cannot borrow your way out of debt. It doesn't work at home, and it doesn't work in macroeconomics either. And the inevitable inflation that results from these policies (to attempt to inflate away the debt accumulated) is a hidden tax that screws the poor and those on fixed incomes, as well as the middle class. And once the USA loses it's "golden fleece" of having the world's reserve currency (and inevitably it will), there will be a severe day of reckoning.
Yes, let's do trash Keynesian economics.
Westminster cannot be trusted with anything. Time and time again it's been shown up as liars and wasters. Belligerent government after belligerent government goes through it's revolving doors and it's as if they have to live up to some school bully type reputation.
The UK is debt central, Norway on the other hand is rich beyond comparison and is a clear example of why Scotland has been hamstrung for decades. The union lie machine is in full swing this year to ensure the referendum goes in their favour and we look forward to many more decades thinking of 'what could have been'.
Yes, and how much is 5 percent of nothing? Involvement in Iraq was wrong whether you wish to view it from an economical, moral or tactical perspective. Putin's taken Crimea, I wonder if he wants Afghanistan back?
The two wars happened. They have nothing to do with the relaxation of rules on annuitising pensions.
Nothing to see here, move on...
I do get bored when people link their own political agendas / views to any thread that can, however tangentially, be linked to "politics".
I'm certain that the SNP ( can anyone name any one of their politicians other that Salmond? ) are just as adept at propaganda.
Or are you telling us that the Devo lot are less capable politicians??
I hope the Scottish do get independence. I'd move up there just to get away from the Royal Family, I prefer the Osmonds to them, and that's saying a lot.
I have never met either the Osmonds or the Royal Family. What are they like?
QUESTION
Are we,Great Britain PLC that is skint still handing out millions to just about every country on the planet. If the answer is yes isn`t it about time we called time on this crazy situation.
Mista H
If you don't know, or don't know how to find out, I don't think you should have the vote...
I hope the Scottish do get independence. I'd move up there just to get away from the Royal Family, I prefer the Osmonds to them, and that's saying a lot.
I believe Salmond wants (and against all advice) believes an independant Scotland will have automatic entry to the EEC, keep the £, and have the Queen as monarch.
He is, of course, wrong on all counts.
If you don't know, or don't know how to find out, I don't think you should have the vote...
TBH.....i dont care what you think
Mista h
The Osmonds are a big family who play music together, the Royal's are a big family with no justification for their existence whatsoever.
I really don't know which statement is more preposterous!
Apologies if I offended you and your taste in music, Char. Who am I to judge?
Back to topic...
The Osmonds are a big family who play music together, the Royal's are a big family with no justification for their existence whatsoever.
Are the Osmonds still going?
Amazing if they are. I was a young child when they were having hits!
ATB from George
If you don't know, or don't know how to find out, I don't think you should have the vote...
TBH.....i dont care what you think
Mista h
.. Good comeback. I'll file you under "Badass"!