UnitiQute; logical and sane upgrade advice

If your immediate goal is to move to a more powerful, refined system, moving to a SuperUniti (or SuperNait or any number of options) would go further towards that goal than the items listed.

A rack is certainly a worthwhile investment and will yield sonic improvements, but again, if you are going for a one box solution, does sinking your upgrade dollars into a rack make sense at this point? Certainly it would make sense if you had 3 or 4 pieces of gear.

As for the power conditioner. Most on this forum are strongly opposed to power conditioners with Naim gear  due to their tendency to choke the current supply to the amp. Personally, I insist on having a Power conditioner on my system to protect my investment. I did a lot of research and invested in an Audience power conditioner, which is the only power conditioner of which I am aware that has the blessing of Naim engineers. To my ears it sounds great.

As for 3rd party power cables. If I am going to spend $300-$400 for a 3rd party cable, I'd rather cough up $800 for a power cable that is engineered specifically for my gear. That's just me though.

As for the order of my upgrades.... started with a SU and Totem arros... then a Powerline, then came a turntable and phono stage, THEN came a rack... then came a Universal Disk player (not used too often... mostly for bluray), then came an upgrade to speakers and phono pre, and then I added a Nap 250. Up next... turntable upgrade maybe this year.

Hope that helps.

Not a recommendation, yes. The Naim power supplies are intended for use as an upgrade in quality for the existing supply, or for use in tandem with the existing supply, or may be required as the piece of kit you bought has no internal supply at all! 

The supplies try to provide the best possible DC reserve of power, that's it. No dealer I know of recommends or uses 3rd party leads or conditioners in demos (I spoke to 3 personally face-to-face), there was a Unitilite review last year where the reviewer stated his own more expensive Isotech gear had a detrimental effect on the Sq compared to the selected / supplied bog-standard lead, he reviewed at home apparently. The Hydra is the only lead I know that gets a dealer nodding, and that's made from the selected cable anyway.

Naim kit is sensitive to interference and sensitive to kit attenuating interference, their power supplies hum naturally and the power stages hiss (mightily for hifi at this point of the price scale) it's the particular compromises that were made By Naim. If someone else thinks or hears different, or is satisfied with a 3rd party investment then that's fine too. Just listen very carefully!

In normal circumstances, ie unless you have terrible mains quality, you don't need a mains conditioner, and in general they will make the sound worse, sapping it of life.

As a satisfied SU owner, I'd recommend you get that. It will sound miles better and should give you what you want. A good basic stand such as the Quadraspire Q4 Evo will be fine. The Powerline is a great addition, and you can save money by buying exdem or used.

The Audioquest cables are excellent and make a significant difference over standard Cat7 - in my system anyway. I use Pearl from the router to the switch, and Cinnamon from the switch to the SU and my UnitiServe. Incidentally, I'd also recommend you get one of the latter - and you can then have fun buying a third party power supply for it!

I added a rebuilt NAP110 to my UQ1 and while it didn't make it louder per se (the NAP110 is only rated about 35W I believe) it did make it fuller and a bit warmer without losing any PRAT and took the burden off the UQ power supply. Sounds pretty great imo. But we have a pretty small room (11X14) and like yours isn't a dedicated listening room (whatever that is!). With Tannoy DC6 speakers I can rarely play it above 54 without fatigue - can't imagine ever playing at 75 unless the speakers were low efficiency or you were standing back farther than 6'. Keep in mind if you do get a separate amp to figure in the cost of Chord Cobra RCA>DIN cable or similar. 

I also suggest Audioquest Cinnamon ethernet cable. I have three - one from the UQ, one from the Vortexbox, both into a switch - and then one from that switch to a main switch which contains the other traffic. In all cases it made a difference over Cat 7. 

This is great help; my sincere thanks to you (plural) for the excellent and informative posts. I really do value the opinions of my 'peers of the ears' in regard to Naim systems. 

The general agreement on power conditioner units is helpful; our power is pretty good, and I am on a dedicated circuit for the hi fi, so no microwaves or fridges or anything else plugged into that circuit. The powerline is starting to seem like a 'sane' upgrade when one comes along. A decent ethernet cable btw router and Naim is also a relatively easy addition. 

Considering my room, budget, and even my level of dedication, I think the SU offers the best way to upgrade all the components, rather than just power or DAC or whatever. And accepting the compromises of an all-in-one unit does not disturb me. Keeping things simple and compact is a real-world advantage that I also like. 

RE: volume; I realize that I'm not often at 75 on the volume dial, but sometimes in the 60's. I think I was inaccurate on that point. 

Will be interesting to see how high you go with the SU dial. I'm rarely above 45. Had it up to 55 yesterday just for kicks (no one else was home) and that was LOUD.

Even if you are in 'just' the sixties you need more power for those speakers. I think driving a Naim amp anywhere above 50-60% you won't be getting the best out of it. I say if you can afford an SU go for it!

I can't imagine getting my SU volume up to 60.

Even on my 'wildest' days when the neighbours and my wife are out, 50 is as far as I get!

Good luck with your next steps Damon, some even more enjoyable times to come!

Again, my thanks to all of you for your continued contributions. 

I know that it is not just 'loud' that makes an impact, but control, acoustic space around the instruments, decay, harmonics; all those lovely things that better gear gives us more of. I think the UQ has a wonderful, easy musical sense to it, but it is slightly less in control of the bass than even my Nait 3. So the SU would be a big jump up in that regard as well as improvements in the other parts of the spectrum as well. 

Yep, it's not just 'louder' that the SU will do, but at the same time it will maintain the clarity and detail.

Indeed, as playing Nirvana at 65 will attest.

You look so much younger than that Nigel. 

I had this same notion Nait 3R Vs Qute. However engaging the 'loudness = yes' brought them at par re: low end .Interestingly it seemed like a better UQ all around, as I could not detect any sonic penalties for doing this.

Note:Qute here used for 'private listening' -not parties,

Alan, make sure you turn off the digital output and disable any unused inputs. It will sound better, and you'll see only those input options that you actually use when you change input in nStream.

Hi Alan,

Well done! And thanks for the mini-review of the differences in sound. Seems like I'm going to have to do the firmware upgrades myself, as neither of the two Naim dealers in town seem to have much comprehension about this work. 

Any other sonic observations you come to would be great to hear about. 

Hi Damon,

It's still early days and new purchase euphoria, but I am happy so far. One thing I've noticed in evening listening is that things seem clearer and more separated even at quite  low volume, and that bass is tight but blossoms as volume ramps. Afraid I'm not the most observant, so not definitive, but SU really seems to image tighter. The one that really struck me was the excellent Bonnie Raitt cover of Dylan's "Million Miles" featuring Bill Frisell...sort of like they were sitting across from me a few feet apart (actually felt like Bonnie was standing just right of centre stage and Bill was sitting over to the left, but that seems a bit ridiculous to say out loud!!). I think I will stick with my "more" review, but would add that there is a richer, lush feeling about the sound...like the advantage heard when moving from FLAC streams to transcoded WAV streams, but on steroids (I mean that in a very good way...maybe it's about hearing more of what's going on in the background).

To your other point about firmware... I had zero issues when I upgraded SU firmware from 3.07 (as received) directly to 3.22 using a Mac mini and a USB cable; I decided that if an intermediate step were required, the (brand new) updater would tell me. It proceeded in two separate phases and worked flawlessly. Perhaps that will also be true for your Qute2? Note that you do need to install the serial-over-USB driver in the Mac, per the detailed instructions in the PDF file that comes with the installer app.

One last thing: the Qute1 is now upstairs, rather happily connected via wifi...not able to say why (no other changes since my report in the other thread), but liking that coincidental benefit also. On iPod or iPad, can select target player to control from settings. Also had a brief go with multi-room party mode, and that works quite nicely (SU is master, Q1 is slave, whichever unit has higher volume sets overall limit, but each unit has a separate slider that works very well.).

Best wishes, alan

Good info in this thread. Glad I read it.

I just got a second-hand UnitiQute 1. And even though I am LOVING it for all the reasons that people love these things, I still found myself asking the same questions that Damon was asking himself...

What if I add...?  What if I update....? If I do this, then will it.....?

And when a person get the SU (Alan33), how much longer before starting to wonder about the NEXT higher level of sound?  I know I would be curious on the first day!

I have to laugh at myself, because the whole reason I bought the Qute was so that I wouldn't have to wonder about interconnects, which DAC sounds best, etc.... lol

Tom Mitchell

Louisiana, USA

About two months on average.

On a track from Trio (Parton, Ronstadt, Harris) that's the exact same effect that pursuaded me that a second power supply on an NDS really was worth the outlay.  On that track (To know him is to love him) and with two power supplies the stage not only separated the two vocalists, but also placed one further back than the other.  The engineering on that album has to be admired, as does the girls' performance.  

Lol, I'm atypical I guess, inhabiting the tails of the distribution! I enjoyed the Qute for several years and moved to the SU not from upgrade-itis the way others have described it! Now I'm about a month and a half in, and still amazed each time I sit and just listen (not as often as I should, perhaps...and not talking about all the times music is on keeping me company as I do other things). Perhaps there's more, but I'm not so driven to  think about the next thing instead of revelling in the current rig. I've had fun trying different streamers and different settings - each one is better than the next - but in truth, I'd be hard pressed to say I dislike anything when heard in isolation. There's sound here that defies my last serious but youthful pursuit by, well, leaps and bounds seems inadequate and light years seems too flamboyant, Now my bedroom system is awesome (Qute and small B&Ws) and my main system s awesome-er (SU and Tannoy 6.2s). I encourage folks to enjoy what they are fortunate to have, and consider any quest you may choose as a separate pleasure. 

Regards, alan

I've had my SU for nearly a year now, and am completely happy with it. I've got it working as well as I can, with a Powerline, AQ leads, dedicated mains etc. Having owned much posher systems in the past, such as CDS3, 552, 300, I know that there is better sound available, but at an inordinately higher price. With the SU you plug in the mains lead, speaker leads, ethernet lead and FM aerial and off you go - it's all so easy, with no cable dressing or setup angst, and it sounds really, really good. And if you want better sound, you just go to a concert. 

Ever since I had a PL12d->Sansui 211-> JR149's (c'1977), I have been less than in awe of concerts.

Chicago, Kansas - Hammersmith

Eagles - Wembley Hall

Bread, Proms - Albert Hall.

Do you really get better sound at amplified concerts? Stereo separation? What speakers are they using? What cables? Amps? By the time the plugs are in your ears (or not) what finesse are you going to hear?

Do you listen at the same sound levels at home? Ever?

So I would sometimes skip a concert and treat myself to a back-catalogue (now called discography?).

I've gone back and forth from a SU to 200 series separates, to a UQ. What I really found indispensable was the Uniti serve. My recommendation for upgrade would probably get one of the non streaming integrates and stream from the UQ preamp or digital out. That is what I am going to do. In doing so you can actually stray from Naim preamp-power if you wish. I had the SU, was pleased, but frankly was frustrated with the lack of upgradability and dead end nature of the design. Audio is a journey, not a destination for me.

I buy into the Naim sound and power supply execution, but not the interconnect power cord thing. The Hiline is a fragile headache and you have to make sure it dangles and doesn't touch anything (Boxer shorts vs briefs I guess). Frankly I've never heard any benefit to mechanical vibration control except in turntables. certainly not electrical connections. Think about it…do electrons flow any different from a dangling wore than a tightly connected one? That said, some hear it and great for them.

Naim makes wonderful stuff, fun stuff, but they also have a select market and need to keep those folks buying. They make the best streamers bar none and at a recent audio show, a naim sales rep told me the streaming electronics are the same for UQ, unitilite, unity, SU, and very close to the ND5sx. Its this feature that keeps me sold on this part of naim's product range. The UQ is the cheapest way I know of getting the Naim streaming performance, so don't forget that in your upgrade plans.

Ah, good to see this thread has some legs. I'm most likely going to follow Alan33 and Hungryhalibut and go the SU route. The continuous upgrade hobby, or journey, isn't appealing. As they say, spend time listening to music rather than listening to hi-fi. I would not be bothered by the lack of expansion offered by the SU. 

The Uniti serve is an interesting suggestion. It does seem like an expensive hard drive, though I understand it does more than that. 

Of course, getting the connection to be reliable and stable is still my immediate upgrade goal.