Triple Glazing

Well the only downside is cost. The sound insulation is the biggest difference. There is no draught with double glazing.

Hi Debs,

Funnily enough, we just installed a triple glazed UPVC French Door in the bedroom and a small triple glazed bathroom window...at a surprisingly reasonable cost for Norway.

As pointed out if you feel you can afford it, go for it as it will give superb sound insulation and excellent  heat retention properties.

Make sure you specify a trickle vent at the top, this is a small ventilation port in the frame that you can regulate by hand to allow fresh background ventilation into the room and helps prevent condensation. I believe its a requirement for windows for new-build housing. If it isn't, specify it anyway as it is a common accessory and almost negligible cost wise.

Jason.

Had triple glazed french doors, single door and a small window installed late last year, the extra cost was £60 per sq meter of glass, total extra cost was £120.00 I'm in Southend on sea. Very pleased with the result.

Thanks for all replies so far, and all very positive views too : )

Jason,

i read somewhere that triple glazing needs to be fitted far more carefully than double, i’m not sure why, ...unless it’s the extra weight of glass?

Or it maybe it’s the age old problem that double glazing has, often an excellent product badly fitted by Bodgit & Scarper Ltd.

But I take note of the trickle vent which is a good idea, although there is an open fireplace plus air brick in the room, and a cat flat will be needed somewhere - probably in another door nearby, i’ll have to ask the cats : )

Debs

Dear Debs,

My grandparents' house in Norway [near Moss] was triple glazed, and it was a lovely warm place. After forty years the big picture windows at the front, overlooking the Oslofjord to the Southwest had to be replaced due to some fogging, and a sliding triple glazed French window fitted. Forty years is a good half-lifetime!

If you can afford triple glazing, then go for it, IMO.

ATB from George

George, Scandinavians make far more sense with living comfortably than the Brits : )

Just learnt there are better frame options than PVCu…

Bear in mind at the planning stage that a triple-glazed frame will be deeper than one for double glazing. The window frame must have a good U-value, which is a measure of the thermal properties of the material. Timber is the top choice, with better U-values than metal, even if the metal has a thermal break. Juliet Wood advises: 'Many triple glazed units come from Scandinavia, which is geared to producing ready-made timber units to a high performance. If you want the most eco-friendly option, the first choice would be FSC approved durable temperate hardwood such as oak, which has a long life. Next would be FSC temperate softwood clad with recycled aluminium. These "composite" windows are made from timber and clad on the outside with aluminium and are low-maintenance. The third choice would be FSC softwood treated with a plant-based paint system. Metal windows are also available with triple glazing but PVCu windows are not considered an eco-friendly option.'

[Source: Channel 4 - A guide to triple glazing]

Oak framed would suit my house fine,

i'd better get a few £ quotes : /

Debs

Dear Debs,

My grandparents' windows were all hardwood frames. No a bit of ally or clad softwood.

Norwegians have the warmest houses in Europe in spite of the coldest climate. They know how to built good houses!

ATB from George

Debs, when you say better options than pvcu, it opens a can of worms. Wood will look better, but needs to be maintained, can warp, etc, and is more expensive, especially hardwood.

Wood from Norway is properly seasoned. Wood is one thing the Scandinavians do better than  we do in the UK. But it will be more expensive than plastic, but even plastic goes wrong in the end with sunlight, and going brittle.

If you maintain hardwood, it will last as long as the glazing in reality.

ATB from George

I got double glazed windows throughout my house ~15 years ago. I was stunned by how much quieter the house was, and I had no appreciation of how drafty it had been before I took the plunge. 

It was an incredible box upgrade for the box that I live in.

Are the walls of this room insulated? How many are outside walls? That's what determines which rooms in my house are the coldest now.

I know what you mean, but it also depends upon the style and character of the property, and oak would suit my home far better. The maintenance thing is not so bad if it’s only the French window, all my other windows are wood-effect UPVc fitted a decade ago, a good product but will probably be knackered in another 20 years.

A good oak product can last centuries, and vamps like us need things to last in our time ; )

Incidentally; 25 years ago i had double glazing fitted to a typical 1930s bay windowed semi which was very expensive back then, although in fairness the fitters were craftsmen, and it made a nice improvement for extra light, a bit quieter from outside noise, and warmer in winter too, but a year later the wall cavities were filled with Rockwood fibre insulation at a fraction of what the glazing cost [ about 10% ] but the difference with the Rockwood is huge, incredible how quiet it became indoors, and the winters far far more snug.

When the 50 year old original wooden frames were removed from the semi, there was slight wet-rot in the sills, but 99% of the wood was perfectly seasoned 1936 timbre, looking at it getting cut up and scraped made me feel very guilty.

Ever since then i’ve been more sold on the idea that roof and wall insulation is far more important than double glazing, and far cheaper to buy too.

My present dwelling is a 1980s timbre wood frame which includes built-in wall insulation, although there is still a cavity which must be left for ventilation, unfortunately filling it would cause damp or condensation problems. TBH I’m not happy about this but stuck with it.

I think there is a growing modern concept that UPVc windows are often a poor choice and becoming considered more of a disposable commodity with a 20 to 30 year life span.

Debs

Debs

Please keep looking at the wood option. There are aluminium outside/wood inside options which might be worth exploring but please do not go for UPVC. Apart from the principle of using a plastic, they have , as you point out a shelf life of 10 to 20 years and cannot be maintained and often have limited ability to be adjusted too. Wood will be more expensive but with care it will last and it will look far more bueatiful. The window section is also likely to be much smaller than UPVC which means more glass and more light.

A point to remember is that as you lose draughts etc from one area of your wall, the windows, any draughts elsewhere, cat flaps etc, will be more pronounced. As they will be more pronounced your overall energy efficiency is compromised so while i am sure your energy bills should go down, unless you keep opening the windows, they may not go down as fast as you may be advised or think.

That said, ventilation is essential and depending on the rest of your wall construction/insulation you will need to keep the general temperature up in the room. (sorry but it gets complicated!)

As has been pointed out you should get a noticable reduction in background noise too.

go for it.

james

Double glazed/doored cat flaps?

Apart from personal taste, I think the wood v PVCu choice comes down to the value of your property, how long you're going to live there and are you willing to pay/do maintenance. Wood is always going to look better, but PVCu has come a long way within the last ten years. Residence 9 PVCu is very good, but expensive.

PVCu lasts 10 years? That's nonsense, it lasts far longer than this and if wood isn't treated or installed properly, you'll be lucky to get 10 years.

not quite nonsense.....I have HA clients who chose to replace timber windows with UPVC windows to save on maintenance. That was 10 years ago and they are now having to replace windows. Happy to accept that they didn't choose expensive UPVC but none the less they are failing, primarily becuase they cannot be patch  'repaired' in the way that a timber window can. And yes, you do need to maintain timber windows but hey, you look after your Naim system so it is not unreasonable to have to maintain your house and its elements.

If the PVCu is only lasting 10 years, there's an installation issue, not product issue.

I can assure you it was the product. I am happy to accept that UPVC can in itself  last longer, (those plastic bags never go away!) but once a UPVC window starts to fail, be it a sash, sliding or side hung, etc, it is not easy to fix or repair. (And as I say the jamb/mullion sections are usually bigger too!)

Count, you are right I don't like plastic windows on principle and won't use them, but my other main gripe is they are very difficult to repair etc too. This in turn limits their life.

However I think Debs is sorted.

We put vinyl windows in our guest house. I was ultimately swayed by the cost (about 40% of timber). I actually find them to be very good quality; solid and work well. No regrets. We'll see how long they last, but a few years in, they're like new.

It has been proved secondary glazing is much better for stopping sound escaping into and out of a building more effectively than triple glazing. Something to do with the gap/space between the glass.  And also more cost effective.

There was a programme on tv with Sarah Beeney demonstrating the fact to perspective purchaser.

It’s a French window [plus another door nearby] that’s in question here,

so secondary glazing isn’t a suitable solution.

Debs

New vinyl windows are only poor digital remasters of original wooden framed windows made from ano-logs

Debs

When the oil runs out we'll still be building houses with wooden window frames!

ATB from George