Is the London transport system at breaking point
Posted by: mista h on 08 April 2014
Not just London,but the UK as a whole !!
Last nite @ 5.30pm a few of us had the misfortune of having to travel from Clapham Junction to Putney by overground train. The first 2 trains were packed to bursting and no way could we get on them. We did get on the 3rd train to arrive but only by having to barge our way onboard. The platforms were packed,the walkways between platforms were mental. Jesus i`m thinking most of these poor sods have to go thru this twice a day. As i stood being crushed like a sardine i felt grateful nobody around me had BO or bad breath.
Anybody else had this sort of problem,and if so what can be done about it ?
Mista H
My quick Google map search showed you could have walked in 47 minutes or cycled over in 15 minutes.
As for what's to be done with moving people around the UK? No idea. Perhaps people should just choose to move around less. Get to know their neighbours instead of visiting friends across town or across country. Stroll around their neighbourhoods instead of going for a drive. Stuff like that. Just live more locally.
People's willingness to travel is at least partially limited by the cost and inconvenience of that travel. The system reaches equilibrium. Making travel easier, faster and cheaper just incentives more people to travel further. You end with the same level of congestion, inconvenience and cost that you started with.
One of the issues is that the congestion cost we impose on others by our choice to travel is externalised. We don't feel other people's frustration, nor cost the delays we cause to them. We make our travel decisions based only on the benefit/cost analysis to ourselves. When you pushed onto the train, the inconvenience you caused to those that missed the train was not part of your analysis. In this way, we all individually make rational decisions (it was still worth it to take the train) but collectively, the overall outcome is poor. The tragedy of the commons (look it up).
No problems down here in Berks, Hants or Wilts (well, appart from cyclists holding up patient queues of motorists during morning rush hour around Newbury - but that only lasts for about 45 mins as far as I can tell)
I very rarely go up to London these days but a few years ago I used to go up there frequently. Trains from Newbury to Paddington at 06:15 or 06:55 etc were reliable, clean, comfortable and only very occasionally crowded. Most of the time everybody had a seat all the way.
I would usually walk (basically along Oxford Street to Holborn) if I was going to the CAA in Kingsway or walk vis Hyde Park and St James Park to the MoD in Whithall. If it was raining hard, then I would take the Underground, but at 07:30 it wasn't too crowded.
Occasionally, on the return journey to Paddington I might have to stand on the underground train, but I don't rcall having to let two or three trains go by simply because they were too full !
Things must have become really bad these past few years, or elso you were just a bit unlucky last week !
My Daughter and son-in-law commute from Earlsfield/Wimbledon to Waterloo each day. He cycles, she runs. Beats the trains whichever you look at it.
Not just London,but the UK as a whole !!
Last nite @ 5.30pm a few of us had the misfortune of having to travel from Clapham Junction to Putney by overground train. The first 2 trains were packed to bursting and no way could we get on them. We did get on the 3rd train to arrive but only by having to barge our way onboard. The platforms were packed,the walkways between platforms were mental. Jesus i`m thinking most of these poor sods have to go thru this twice a day. As i stood being crushed like a sardine i felt grateful nobody around me had BO or bad breath.
Anybody else had this sort of problem,and if so what can be done about it ?
Mista H
It's called the rush hour
sister xx
One of the reasons why I am self-employed is that I don't have to commute, and when I do travel, I try if at all possible to avoid peak times.
The problem is not that London's transport cannot cope with the number of people wishing to move about, it is that it cannot cope with millions of them all wishing to do so at the same time.
The answer? There aren't any easy ones, but it would help greatly if employers were more flexible and allowed their employees to work from home or remotely more often, or to make their hours more flexible. Working from 9 to 5 makes little sense these days.
My Daughter and son-in-law commute from Earlsfield/Wimbledon to Waterloo each day. He cycles, she runs. Beats the trains whichever you look at it.
You let your daughter marry a cyclist? Crikey!
One of the main problems regarding network planning from phones to railways is that to supply capacity for high demand periods leaves masses of idle equipment for the other times usually a greater percentage of the day than the rush hour.
As Kevin says too many people all trying for the same time slots.
Where possible higher capacity carriages and on some lines especially the newer ones longer trains are employed.
Maybe the cache of a London address may be to blame as well, try having the firm where the workers come from?
Is there really a need for all to come to an office to work, e-working must employed more as well.
Then off course no one will be using public transport and it will suffer cuts and congestion will increase again because services are taken out of use.
Where possible higher capacity carriages and on some lines especially the newer ones longer trains are employed.
Stations on virtually all the routes into Waterloo are/have been lengthened to accomodate 10/12 car trains rather tha the current 8 car sets, The shorter paltforms at Waterloo (Platforms 1 to 6 I think) are being lenghtened and the station throat modified to accept these longer trains. Access to one or two of the ex EuroStar platforms are also being modified to enable use by additional train services
My Daughter and son-in-law commute from Earlsfield/Wimbledon to Waterloo each day. He cycles, she runs. Beats the trains whichever you look at it.
You let your daughter marry a cyclist? Crikey!
Not just London,but the UK as a whole !!
Last nite @ 5.30pm a few of us had the misfortune of having to travel from Clapham Junction to Putney by overground train. The first 2 trains were packed to bursting and no way could we get on them. We did get on the 3rd train to arrive but only by having to barge our way onboard. The platforms were packed,the walkways between platforms were mental. Jesus i`m thinking most of these poor sods have to go thru this twice a day. As i stood being crushed like a sardine i felt grateful nobody around me had BO or bad breath.
Anybody else had this sort of problem,and if so what can be done about it ?
Mista H
Mista H , it's because we live in a very backward country. This isn't improved by an incestuous, etiolated ruling class who due to inbreeding have a skewered vision as their left eye is in their right socket, and their right eye is in their left socket. I see no signs of it here tonight, however.
What a fantastic post.....understood every word.....well almost !!
Mista H
As to public transport piss up and brewery comes to mind. The Govt. needs to sell our rail network and trains to the Chinese, who could afford to invest in it and bring it up to 21century needs, then they could attract the foreign talent, who are willing to work at a fair rate of pay, for the manpower to run it.
.....and if we sell our power generation/distribution system to them as well, perhaps they'll invest in that and bring it up to date and run it for us..........
............and the water supply system.................
.............and our hi-fi design and manufacturing industry-----------------oooopps !!!! got that bit wrong...........
The Govt. needs to sell our rail network and trains to the Chinese,
Now, I know who owns all the shares in Network Rail, who keep claiming they own the network (but I suspect have only got a 30 year license to operate, maintain and renew) but IIRC most of the trains are now owned by the big banks and since HSBC (used to ?) stand for Hong-Kong and Shanghi Banking Corporation I wouldn't be surprised to find the Chineese already own some of the trains.
As for the Train Operating Companies and Freight Operating Companies (TOCs & FOCs) they've changed hands so many times since privatisation, the Chineese might already own half of them.
Nice to see Hitachi locating its European train building headquarters to Newton Aycliff. No doubt Naim will soon be announcing its new train-building factory in Peking............
Mista H
I was a regular commuter from Swindon to London for nearly 30 years. A typical day was to leave Swindon at 6.41am in a fairly quiet train but 30 minutes later it was packed like sardines when it called in at Reading. At 7.55am the train hit Paddington and the place was packed. The undergrounds were stuffed to the limit.
I usually left the office around 6.00pm and again it was over crowded.
However sometimes, I would only have to go London for a single meeting and if say I caught the 10.00am train, I more or less had the carriage to myself. Even Paddington was quiet around midday.
The simple fact is that we all travel at the same time and the system has always struggled to cope.
The last time I caught a train was around 7.00pm from Paddington on a Sunday evening and my wife and I had the carriage to ourselves. Basically an almost empty train was travelling from London to Cornwall and just think of the cost of that.
There is no such thing as an efficient public transport system because it has to cater for varying peaks and valleys of demand.
Sorry but we all got to either learn to live with it or stomp up more for an improved service.
Regards
Mick
My reason for starting this topic was because it came as one hell of a culture shock to me.Its the first time since retiring 6 years ago that this movement of cattle looks to be a daily norm. If i was working now i think i would sooner sign on the Rock n Roll that have to go thru this sort of daily grind.
Mista H
PS...Have you sorted out your new leather belt yet !! hate to see you walking about with your trousers round your ankles.
How unreasonable Mr H for you as a retired person to attempt to travel at the same time as working people who are helping to pay for your health and welfare costs.
Get back in your care home and do not come out until 11am and be back home by 3 30pm so that you do not get a chance to travel with the kids leaving school (unless you have been CRB checked)
Dear derek wright I am an old oap 78 worked all my life , I have earned my bus pass started work at 15 ,I suffered war wounds doing Ns ,When you know some thing about life then open you mouth regards.
Dear derek wright I am an old oap 78 worked all my life , I have earned my bus pass started work at 15 ,I suffered war wounds doing Ns ,When you know some thing about life then open you mouth regards.
Dear Rupert, I think you might have somewhat misinterpreted Derek's post...
Dear derek wright I am an old oap 78 worked all my life , I have earned my bus pass started work at 15 ,I suffered war wounds doing Ns ,When you know some thing about life then open you mouth regards.
Dear Rupert, I think you might have somewhat misinterpreted Derek's post...
It's amazing what the addition of a smiley or lack of one can do to the tone of a post.
How unreasonable Mr H for you as a retired person to attempt to travel at the same time as working people who are helping to pay for your health and welfare costs.
Get back in your care home and do not come out until 11am and be back home by 3 30pm so that you do not get a chance to travel with the kids leaving school (unless you have been CRB checked)
What a fantastic post Wrighty,loved reading every word. Must go now off to buy a new Anorak and Zimmer frame.
Mista H
I don't know what all of the fuss is about. Public transport simply works. Ok, you may have to stand for a few minutes at busy times but it's not really a hardship.
Or do I not understand because i live in Switzerland?
Bannana man you dont understand. Trains are pulling into the station that are so packed full of people that you cannot i repeat cannot get on them.
As i understand it some stations in Tokyo employ full time packers who`s job it is to push everybody onto the trains. Wont be long before the idea hits London.
Mista H
No different here in the Midlands having to negotiate the M6 daily, yesterday M6 closed all day until this morning, absolute nightmare. Too many people not enough space or alternatives. Infrastructure creaking.
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Wrighty
Your posts are just fab,do keep em coming.
Mista h
Gee thanks Mista H - perhaps you could learn from the master. <g> since you seem to have had an irony and humour bypass in your venerable old age.