Wave or Flac

Hi Guys

sorry if my comments were ambiguous but just to confirm I use minimserver because of its handling of classical music metadata - just personal taste! To my ears asset and minimserver sound identical in sound quality terms when transcoding flac to wav.

It's probably been covered before, but, how do I know if my NDX is receiving a FLAC or a WAV? I think that my Synology NAS is transcoding using the DSM Media Server but how do I know for sure?

nstream should tell you on the top right of the 'now playing' screen.

G

But that would mean that I had an apple thing. And, happily, I don't

With a UPnP track playing, scroll the remote "i" button to get to the "Stream Info" screen.  After about 2 secs it changes to show Artist, Album Name, Track # & Track Title,  & the sample rate & WAV or FLAC etc

Next get an Apple thing - you don't know what your missing.    

Thanks Mike, I will try it later. 

I feel a dose of the Minim's coming on soon..

I did have an Apple thing. It went in the bin a few months ago. Never again.

I just use my iPad Mini for n-Stream & e-mails when travelling.

It gets used for surfing www & such like if needed,  but if I'm home then its easier to use the grown up PC.  The keyboard function just drives me nuts,  so I only use that when absolutely required for e-mails etc..

Mike, there are some really really nice keyboard solutions for the iPad.  When I was using one as a 'laptop alternative,' I found the combo of a keyboard and the touchscreen quite nice.  Zagg makes some good ones -- a keyboard built into a case that props up the iPad at a nice viewing angle.  Now that MS Office apps are released for iOS, I may go back to that combo when I do not want to carry a laptop.

Anyone know if v5 of the DSM Synology software has addressed the issue of hires FLACs only being transcoded to 16/44.1 WAVs?

I have read on here that v3 was OK, v4 wasn't and that people were going to test v5, but didn't see an answer.

I appreciate the tip Bart,  problem is were do you stop ??!!!??. 

I am now retired & the days of lugging laptops & attachments all over the planet are over. Most of my long distance travel these days is bush or beach & getting www connections is not a real priority like it used to be.  I will just knuckle down & get the hang of that **** screen keyboard. 

My next trip is over your way, 3500 miles touring west coast, mountains & desert & expect good www everywhere.   

Hi Graham

I appears that DSM 5 has indeed fixed the transcoding issue although i haven't tried it myself. Im still on 3.2 but will update at some point.

Graeme

Yes DSM 5 Media Server does transcode 24/96 FLAC to WAV correctly according to the NDX

Great news, I will try upgrading to DSM 5 then.  I'd avoided transcoding from FLAC to WAV for just this reason.  Thanks for the confirmation.

In the White Paper on the NDX from 2010, Naim writes:

"Naim’s UPnP™ servers deliver the uncompressed audio data ripped from CD using the Naim ripping engine to ensure the best quality reproduction. Uncompressed audio data will always give better results than compressed. Even lossless compression may not reproduce audio with equivalent quality to the uncompressed original as the processing required to uncompress the data increases the computational load. This raises the power supply noise floor, which detracts from the sound quality."

But this will not apply to upstream transcoding ie on a NAS.  Upstream transcoding of FLAC to WAV will sound exactly the same as WAV files.

Presumably the Ethernet buffers in the NDX will be working harder with WAV than FLAC?  Also, there will be some coupling of RFI from the NAS into the Ethernet cable.

Oh, I'm sure this would distract from the buzzing and humming of the amp. Quite annoying indeed!

What if you are using an external power supply?

G

If you are listening to redbook material it follows that your renderer will be a long way from flat out when it is decoding FLAC. After all, it can cope with 24/192 so 16/44 is a much smaller load. Therefore if you hear degradation listening to red book it should be intermittent and in time with the arrival of the data packets over your network. Would anyone who can hear the degradation caused by rendererside FLAC decoding be able to tell me how many packets a minute are transmitted by their server? 

Degradation is putting it strongly IMO. Raising the drama on something which is trivial to say the least. A bit like HiFi in general really. Some people like the presentation of certain formats. Some don't, others don't care. I don't particularly care what drives my preference as long as I can stick with it. If others can stick with what they prefer or continue to have no preference and the freedom that goes with it, then better still. Most things can be converted to most other things. Long may it continue.

Fair enough. Naims own word were "distracts from the sound quality". So the question is, how often can you hear the FLAC decoding "distracting from the sound quality" with red book? It can't be a continuous issue because your streamer can handle 24/192. Not disputing you can hear it. Far from it. Just curious as to how often in say five minutes you can hear the FLAC decoding distracting from the sound quality.

I'd never heard it until I sat down and compared numerous times with WAV. The difference is subtle (to me) but once heard, meaningful.

Agreed Jan-Erik,  I posted on another thread a few days ago

"Personally I found that WAV is subtly better to my ears - more full sounding & has better fine detail"

The thing is I am new to this streaming game & have not formed a firm opinion on it, I was just finding out for myself.

OK it takes a bit more NAS capacity,  but if capacity is a problem, you need to get more, not worry about saving what you have.

You are trying to put words in my mouth. I have never said I can hear the FLAC decoding detracting from the sound quality.  On my system FLACs played through HDX or NDS don't sound as good to me as WAVs. Even when I've been ignorant of the file type, FLACs have always sounded a bit thinner.  I have never suggested that this is because of FLAC decoding. I suggested that this might be a possibility. I don't know and I don't care. WAVs sound better to me. Job done. There's so much music out there...

Transcoding upstream negates both those issues.  You don't need more capacity and you get 'WAV sound' as if it were stored as WAV in the first place.  FLAC is win/win, WAV is lose/win in respect of storage/sound.

That, in a nutshell, is the whole point of FLAC.