Independent Scotland

They can't keep the pound and not be subject to British interest rate policy.

They don't leave the EU becaue they - as an idependent country are not a member.

Border policy opens a new can of worms. But I suspect a similar arrangement as with Eire.

Lets get the geography right for a start...........

Hadrians Wall lies to the SOUTH of Northumberland which itself is part of England. The border runds diagonally fron just south of Gretna, north-eastwards to just north of Berwick.

ISTR you started a similar discussion a few years ago, before the current term of the SNP. In that discussion, I suggested that individual parts of Scotland might like to vote to remain part of Britain and/or the UK - a bit like Cornwall, Wales or NI. I noticed last week that the Scottish Islands (Shetland, Orkney and the Western Isles) all indicated they would like to separate from Scotland and possibly team up with Scandanavia. Is Salmond prepared to enable such a referendum ? 

Assuming a "Yes" vote, what sort of timescale are we talking about for Independence to be in place ?

Are we talking about days, weeks, months, years, decades.

Would it be prior to any dicussion of the above issues or agreement on the disribution af debt/assets. I understand that Westminster considers a "Yes" vote improbable, so claims it hasn't made any provisional provision for independence, yet.

apologies for all the typos/mis-spellings etc, the time-out period seems to be less than the 45 minutes I thought we had !!

Dear Don,

Are those Scottish people who might prefer to join the "Scandinavians," [and Scandinavians themselves come in different varieties too], so sure that the Norwegians, Swedes, or Danes would have them!

I know Norwegians are rather pro-British, but that is the point. Pro-British, not pro-English, and not pro-Scottish. I think the Swedes look more towards Germany and the rest ot Continental Europe, and are often [in my experience] quite indifferent about the British, and sometime downright hostile towards us. Perhaps the Danes might be happy to take on the Islanders, as they are serious traders, and would welcome the fisheries for themselves!

ATB from George

Hello George,

I was simply pointing out what I (think I) heard in a Radio 4 bulletin a few days ago.

I doubt whether many people these days give much consideration about the views of others when considering their own wishes. I don't imagine that the Scottish Islanders have consulted the Scandanavian countries at all, any more than Salmond did a few years back when he engisiaged Scotland joining a Scandanavian axis of wealth...........just before Iceland went bankrupt.

Apologies for any inaccuracies in my recollections of these historic events.

and there's me thinking that Trinity was a more desirable part of Edinburgh.

Dear Don,

This whole Scottish Independence thing is half-baked.

Not thought through in any realistic way, but if the Scottish want, then they will reap what they sow in terms of the seeming absence of a working scheme for what will emerge.

I hope that Scotland rejects leaving the Union, but if they do want to set up their own State, then they should not expect to cherry pick what parts of Britain they want. For example. The issue of Sterling [GBP] is a case in point. Of course they may choose to use the currency of a neighbouring country, but they cannot expect economic policy in regulating the interest rates and exchange value of the Pound to be made taking any account of Scottish economic needs if they reject the current Union government.

It could just happen the England, Wales, and Northern Irish interests may dictate a policy that would effectively bankrupt Scotland, just as we see the Euro has severely damaged the economies of Greece, Portugal, Spain, and Italy, because the policy is a one size fits all that centres on the interests of the major industrial powers of the Euro-zone.

ATB from George

We won't vote 'yes'.

G

Well, I hope the people of Scotland vote to remain part of the UK. Far too many reasons to start listing them, but it seems a shame to break up a Union that has worked reasonably well for a few hundred years and even "amicable divorce" settlements are prone to unsatisfactory outcomes for both parties, in many cases.

I think the politicians in Westminster need a radical shake up and amongst other things they need to take account of the needs of communities all over the UK, more so than at present. "Middle England", the Home Counties and London do seem to take centre-stage more often than not or so ISTM. 

I have many, many friends in Scotland, mostly in Motherwell, Glasgow and even Luss, plus one or two in Shetland and Lewis. They all say they will vote "No" and I believe them.

But Cameron has a way of alienating people without appearing to try............and I wouldn't blame a single person in Scotland for changing their mind if he gets too involved !

I hope a majority of common-sense Scottish folk think the same Graeme 

On the narrow question of border controls it all rather depends.  If Scotland is not a member of the EU, as seems highly likely, the border controls between the rest of the UK and Scotland will in large part be determined by the European Union because Scotland will be a 'third country'. In other words the land-boundary that exists between England and Scotland will be similar in legal terms to that between Poland and Ukraine.  In contrast the land boundary between N. Ireland and Eire is between two EU member states.  

Of course the border controls between some EU member states and some third countries can seem quite relaxed e.g. with Switzerland. But that's in part because the citizens of those countries have national ID cards like many member states and common standards and controls. I don't think I've heard Alex S suggest he's going to introduce ID cards in an independent Scotland.  Visa requirements for Scots travelling to the (remaining) UK and the rest of the EU are I suspect highly unlikely but that won't be decided wholly in Westminster or Edinburgh.

This question is another in a seemingly long list that Mr Salmond and his party have not addressed directly and explained to the good people of Scotland.  I find it both remarkable and distasteful that the SNP is enticing people to gamble in this way without a complete and balanced assessment of the risks and issues involved.  The SNP's frequent response when asked to explain its position on such issues is to default to Westminster-bashing, presumably in the hope that it might resonate with the nationalistic emotions of some in Scotland.  But I think and sincerely hope that enough canny Scots can see through this tosh and vote with their heads.

MDS

I've not posted much lately but this is a topic that really gets me going.

The United Kingdom, greater by far than the sum of its parts.

Alex Salmond is in my opinion, currently the most divisive and thereby dangerous politician in this wonderful group of nations. He is hellbent on becoming 'King of Scotland' and appears not to care how he goes about it.

I'm not sure how the good people of Scotland will vote, but I believe  that the die is cast and a 'no' vote will only postpone independence as Salmond will just keep going back until it happens, unless of course, the British oil runs dry.

To the SNP..be careful what you wish for, no good will come of it.

Just say NO

Don,

My grandfather was badly injured during the first world war. After the war housing was built at Earl Haig Gardens in Trinity for the wounded of the war. My Mum was born in the house in 1927 and she had 3 siblings. So it was sort of a council house as it was controlled by the Corporation if I remember rightly.

It was upper class as the milkman was a young man by the name of Sean Connery.

When I used to stay with my grandmother there were veterans from the 2nd and Korean wars living there too.

regards David.

ps yes I do know where Hadrians wall is as I have visited it. But it was erected to contain the Scots.

MDS I agree with your thoughts .

I also believe that Salmond actually wants a NO VOTE. He will then go down in History as the greatest living Scot for trying to Free Scotland from the dreadful Tories in Westminster. Also he will not have to provide the impossible to the Scots. I do believe that a Yes vote is a possibility if the NO campaign continues to be so full of doom and gloom and despondency.

I know next to nothing about this particular drive for independence, but I am always disappointed by the emergence of any initiatives to further divide people into groups/tribes/countries/states/races/ethnicities - whatever you want to call them.

.....with the possible exception of ca* *rivers/cycli*ts...............

We used to live in Trinity.

G

looks like David and Sean were in good company

No one will be able to answer every question that will pop up if we vote for Independence as there will always be obstacles along the way but you can read the Scottish Gvt webpage on it here. It may answer some of your questions and also conversely may pose others.

http://www.scotreferendum.com/

and the alternative campaign.

http://noscotland.net/

http://bettertogether.net/

If Scotland want to go, then that is fair enough, but gone will be regional development, and economic policy that shares Scotlands' problems with the rest of the UK, and ....

If the Scottish want no more sympathy than the UK gives Slovakia, then so be it.

A bigger problem for the UK than Scotland [if independent] in the coming months and years will be the Ukraine.

ATB from George

Touche.

How we vote is a matter for us but what is the alternative?  Decade after decade of governments that we did not vote for?  For politics we did not vote for?

It's just a plain fact that England is right of centre politically.  Scotland is left of centre.  Now if both countries had a similar population it wouldn't be so bad but you have 50 million and we have 5 million.  Guess how the votes stack up for the UK parliament?

Labour under Blair and Mandelson realised this in the 90's and understood for labour to win power it had to ditch it's fundamental beliefs and move to the right.

But this effectively killed labour as a force in Scotland when Scottish labour voters saw their party, the party of the working classes, deserting them.

Scottish labour has not recovered from that and it will not recover anytime soon if Ed Balls and Milliband are serious about adopting the tory polices they say they're going to.

Scotland politically is closer to the EU than it is to London.

UKIP is almost entirely an English phenomenon, they hold no popular sway up here. (outside of Rangers fans)

And what of Cameron's referendum on leaving the EU? Scotland wants to remain as part of the EU so do we get bumped out just because England has 10 times our population and generally has a different political outlook?

This referendum is about politics, not nationality.  My dad's English and has lived up here for nearly 60 years.  He'll be voting yes.

If it's about western politics then you can bet the driving force is a very few people will make shed loads of money out of it.

It seems that is the only driver these days.