Is n-Stream working with homeplugs an issue?

It should work.  The iPad communicates via the router.

Thanks Kevin. I thought that communication was via the router but technically the n-Stream and the ND5 XS would be on different networks (even though both working through the same router). I suppose there would have been a lot of chat here about it if it was a problem so hopefully it'll be OK! Even though they're technically plug 'n' play, it's going to take me a long time to set up this homeplug network and I don't really want to finally switch it on only to find that n-Stream won't control my player any more.

When I used homeplugs a while back I did not have any issues with this.  And the Devolo ones I used were genuinely plug & play.  Rather impressive. 

If you do get the opportunity to put proper cabling in your home then I would recommend it.  I have done that and the whole setup is definitely more stable.

Thanks Nudger; that's reassuring. I've bought Solwise homeplugs which people seem to regard highly. With any luck I'll get round to installing them this evening.

And, yes, I'd love to have a proper cabled network but it's an old house and it would be quite an undertaking. Generally the wi-fi works well but it couldn't manage some 24-bit audio files that I had, hence trying homeplugs (because 24-bit sounds incredible!).

This is exactly how I have my feed to a ND5XS, via Devlo homeplugs through a 'local' switch with a Raspberry Pi running Asset UPnP server, from my 'backend' of primary/backup NAS units and WiFi AP.

The datastream to the ND5XS is completely stable on all 24-bit materials including 192KHz.

The Asset UPnP server is dynamically transcoding the compressed FLAC/ALAC formats to uncompressed WAV, all without any buffering issues and seamless control via n-Stream.

Like the OP this is an old 19th Century Georgian House with no opportunity for 'phyiscal' wiring.

However high ceilings do allow the system to 'breath' well.

Enjoy,

Simon.

Graeme, I too have the same problem with an old house where installing physical cabling would be a no go for the other half and quite an undertaking should I ever be allowed to! So, I went to the Solwise home plug solution (500 AV, some with 4 ethernet ports for expansion). The system works really well with an Apple Airport Extreme as the router a 2TB Zoneripper (RIPNAS) using a "built in" AssetUPnP server feeding my SU some 50 feet away. 

There have been no issues with n-Stream at all and streaming FLAC files of 24 bit up to 192KHz has worked without any buffering issues at all and the sound is excellent. I appreciate that it would probably sound better with direct cabling and also if it was on a separate spur, unfortunately I have had to work around that problem and I am extremely happy with what I have.

A month ago I added 6 ferrite chokes to the system's ethernet cabling, at both ends and will soon be trying a metre and a half length of AQ Cinnamon on the last leg between the home plug and the SU. These relatively inexpensive tweaks really do seem to incrementally improve the sound to my ears. 

Not sure if I get it right but to me the critical phrase in the OP's original post is  "I understand that the homeplugs set up their own private network. If this is the case..". I do use homeplugs myself at home and have no issue at all streaming hi rez files from the "backend" location of my NAS to the hi fi room whilst controlling the streamer with n-stream but I have not set up any private net or subnet for the homeplugs.

Only issue I have (and to be honest have not managed to overcome yet despite investing in expensive ethernet cables) is that my phono stage picks up the homeplugs traffic to the effect that I cannot use my analog source. So I have resolved to wifi connection of the streamer thus sacrificing 192 kHz playback... Perhaps one day in the not so far future I will have an ac wireless network able to stream those as well without issues ...

Yes, there is some interference on the Vinyl replay, as a phono stage is much more sensitive.

First I located the homeplug for the streamer, as far away as possible, on a different mains socket, in fact on an extension plug, even though it is not a recommended configuration for the homeplug, and it does reduce the data transmission rates, it is still enough for 24/192 streaming.

I have ferrite beads on all the ethernet cables, but it the RFI is actually from the plug itself.

So if I am having a serious Vinyl playing session, unplug the homeplug.

Simon.

RFI is an inherent issue with the homeplug system as it modulates the mains at high frequency to transfer the data (broad spectrum signal up to 86MHz for AV2).  You may well find that some form of mains RF interference suppression between the mains and the audio system is highly beneficial.

The physical data transport layer of Homeplug AV2 can transmit using any pairing of Live, Neutral or Earth wires, so you will need something that gives differential mode interference rejection (in addition to common mode rejection) .  Note that many 'mains conditioners' (and ferrites on the mains lead!) are almost exclusively protection against common mode interference and so will be of little help.

I'm happy to report that there were no issues at all. I've never known anything be quite so "plug 'n' play". My various iOS devices communicate with the ND5 XS without any kind of problem. My NAS can now convert the FLAC files to WAV before sending them too. The 24-bit files play without interruption. There is no detectable "noise".

I may never go out again.

Don't you just love it when a plan comes together.

Sit back and enjoy.

Steve

Please be aware that Radio Frequency Interference (whether mains borne or radiated) will probably not appear as noise in the analogue output.  Rather it's more likely to cause a loss of resolution and treble hardness due to intermodulation distortion.

What can I say? It sounds great.

Good, then pick your music, sit back and enjoy it - that's the main thing anyway.

... Wishing you many happy hours of Naiminess.

I really would recommend the Homeplugs as a temporary measure or turn them off at both ends when you have finished using them.

Despite the RF coupling they will cause to connected equipment, which may or may not be noticeable depenfding on system sensitivity and personal tastes, the real issue to me is health related. They produce a horrendous amounts of EMI/RFI from your domesting wiring and connected appliances, simply by the laws of physics.. and I wouldn't expose my family to sleeping in that sort of field strength. Just switch a portable SW radio in in your house or bedroom and see if the RF front end gets swamped and overloaded when your Homeplugs are on.

But clearly this is a personal choice, so please be aware there MAY be health risks associated with their use, albeit currently the effects of medium to long term exposure of relatively low power EM/RF  are  being formally researched by the World Health Organization and I understand it expects to deliberate in 2015. Until then consumer beware.

Those who are interested on the health side could start with this link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...tic_hypersensitivity

Simon

Just to say that some years I used an Apple Airport Express as a wireless to ethernet bridge and it worked very well indeed. Not very expensive either, so if you're worried about EMI etc might be a safer way to go.

Further to my above post, I thought given the sensitivity and potential health impact  of the subject  a more formal reference on the impacts of EMF rather than a Wikipedia one  would be better, so here is the UN/WHO page and reference to the EMF Project.

http://www.who.int/peh-emf/project/en/

Avoid Homeplugs unless you have no other options

Tog

Why do you say that?

Thanks. This is certainly interesting. Is it in the same sphere as research into whether mobile phones are detrimental to our health? Does it mean that it's just wise to keep them out of bedrooms pending further info?

I have to admit that I never really understood Airport Express! I used to have Airport Extreme as a base station and bridge which worked well until my life was upgraded. I'll investigate it a little further.

I didn;t quite realise what it was till I had it either! I bought it years ago as my first step into streaming - it was rubbish, but it got me going. Sometime later I was using a Logitech Touch in my kitchen, which kept dropping out when I turned the microwave on because it was only a 802.11g device. So I dug the AE out of the cupboard, configured it as wireless to ethernet bridge and used it very successfully to deliver ethernet to the Touch. The AEs wireless was fancier and resisted the microwave.

Graeme, it's related, but not directly the same. Mobile phones use higher power and higher frequencies, GSM typically uses 900 MHz and 1.8 Ghz, and the impact to flesh is well documented, albeit the long term health consequences are debatable.

However we ensure mobile phones and wifi is off in our kids rooms when they sleep, and I certainly wouldn't put a wifi access point / wifi router near a bedroom.

Homeplugs operate across a very wide band of lower frequencies and lower power  than mobiles from around 3MHz to sometimes a couple of hundred MHz, with frequency notches for amateur radio bands, and often air traffic control and FM broadcast bands. (But interestingly not for the military HF bands or AM short wave broadcast bands last time I looked) The Homeplugs however create a wideband relatively low power RF / Magnetic  field around your appliances and mains wiring that fall away less rapidly with distance than say mobiles,/ wifi because of the lower frequencies.. And long term exposure to this is potentially problematic..

But presumably the speed is limited to the speed of your Wi-Fi?

And presumably, as the signal is in the cabling, the whole house will be affected. Not just where the homeplugs are fitted.