Where has the NDX into Hugo thread gone? (PostScript)

I'm using ND5XS through an active ATC system and was thinking of either adding the dedicated external PSU (XP5XS) or Naim nDAC to upgrade the sound performance.

However, the Chord Hugo appears to be the most obvious choice at the moment and may sound much better than adding the external PSU or the nDAC - which probably needs an external PSU to sound at its best and with a premium cost outlay.

All things considered, perhaps the Hugo (albeit I need to demo one and hear for myself) is the most cost effective solution to upgrade the sound to a higher level in my system.

I welcome any thoughts on the Hugo v's external PSU from any current Hugo users?

HI Frog

I use my NDX into Hugo now, but previously used and XPS on the NDX. When i added the Hugo to the NDX it made the XPS redundant and i sold it. I honestly couldn't hear any benefit of the XPS being in line.

Not saying that others couldn't hear a difference though.

All i can say is do yourself a favour and at least get a loan of a Hugo to listen too. I think you will be surprised to say the least.

Graeme

Mr Frog.. interesting question. I use passive ATCs not active BTW. The Naim DAC to me is a great DAC and partnered with the appropriate PSU ultimately provides one of the best digital sources that Naim currently provide.

The drive and bass of the NDAC with the 555PS for example is second to none, and your ATCs wil lap it up, I have no experience of XP5XS into NDAC but I am sure it cant be a million miles behind.

The Hugo is quite a different beast or should I say creature - it doesn't have that Naim drive and pace that some of us like - but dare I say it goes in more a direction of the NDS/555PS/555PS style of presentation - ie more neutral and insightful - with plays on textures and harmonics and space so audition if you can and see what you prefer. For me I just wanted a change and enjoyed that change.

So perhaps the comparison the NDAC is one of the most thrilling roller coaster rides out there - and the Hugo is a boat cruise up the Amazon.

Thanks guys

Graeme - I understand that the XPS (that you used previously) is a much better PSU than the XP5XS that I was considering and based on your experience, I reckon I can now discount the idea of an external PSU. Particularly since the Hugo is about £200 less than the PSU and 'sounds' like it gives a far greater and much more noticeable improvement in sound quality than upgrading the power supply.

Simon - sounds like you prefer the Hugo to your previous NDAC with 555PS, which is pretty amazing considering the enormous price differential. I certainly wasn't going to spend anywhere near the £8,000 for those two boxes and if the Hugo delivers such pleasure at a mere fraction if the cost, it sounds a no brainer. I was considering using the NDAC 'bare' but it's still about £800 more than the cost of the Hugo!

I am really grateful for your input and shall arrange a demo before deciding on what to purchase, but it all points towards the Hugo at the moment. Any recommendations of which particular leads to use to connect it to the Naim ND5S?

Both my ND5XS and QNAP TS-212 NAS are hard wired using Ethernet to an Apple Time Capsule which acts as the wifi router for all our devices. I'm not using a switch between the router or any other RF chokes etc; so any other advice to maximise sound potential would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks once again for all your advice and assistance.

Simon

I do notice a better punch to the sound than DAC+XPS-2 in my case.

I wonder if that in itself is also due to the better timing of Hugo? Being able to separate better the tones with more energy from the tones with less energy?

Maybe with a 555PS DAC already has better drive than with XPS-2.

cheers

Aleg

Quite nice description of the difference in signature of the two options. I am a bit puzzled however that you stepped towards a NDS alike presentation as you have always been such a strong supporter of the NDAC / 555PS fraction.

Aleg, the 555PS on the NDAC certainly provides a striking response - and there is great bass weight - and dynamics with a sort of organic feel. It was too long ago for me to remember what the NDAC/XPS2 sounded like - so cant fairly comment.

Bert - indeed - I have always preferred for most genres the NDAC over the NDS - there was something more rounded and vibrant for me - although I felt the NDS was cleaner and more detailed.

The Hugo has the cleaner type presentation - but it also has a performance I had not noticed before with a Naim DAC of any persuasion - and it was in the area of timbres and harmonics. Choral voices, strings, brass and even jazz sets had a feel that just drew me in and those tones and textures just felt right - when the recording offered it. (I did enquire off forum whether others had noticed similar things when using 500 series amplification rather than me on my modest classic series, and the answer so far has been yes).

So I am enjoying this new experience - yes I sometimes miss my NDAC/555PS but I am rediscovering my recordings so all in all no regrets.

Simon

The NDS/555DR takes about 6 months to break in. Did you listen to a new unit or a nicely run in one? Mine is just about now coming into itself and stabalizing.

hi I have listened to the combo many times, and the extended home trial was with a  run in model, with about 3 to 4 months on the clock from memory. The NDS is a fine machine.. It's just not my cup of tea..that's all, I have moved on..

Simon

Hi  Graeme,

I've just joined this forum to post my experience with the Naim NDX and XPS power supply...

I just wanted to say I've had quite a different experience with the Hugo vs NDX + XPS. I've spent the last two weeks auditioning speakers where the source was the NDX + XPS and the NDX +Hugo. To my ears, the NDX + XPS stood head and shoulders above the Hugo. Don't get me wrong, the Hugo was good and I thought it on a par with the NDX alone but adding the XPS made a very significant improvement.

Kev.

Hi Kev

Glad to hear you have done a lengthy demo of the two options. This is what makes our hobby such an interesting one, that we don't all come to the same conclusion. This is why i'm always wary of saying this is better than that. We all like our music presented differently.

Just thought i would clarify my statement above though. when i said "I honestly couldn't hear any benefit of the XPS being in line" this was meant in conjunction with Hugo. Adding the XPS to a bare NDX makes a considerable difference.

Happy listening

Graeme

Hi Graeme,

That was how I read your post and what prompted me to respond. I have to admit though, I'm a bit of a novice so I'm probably missing the subtleties of the Hugo. What would you say the NDX/Hugo offered over the NDX/XPS or was it more just a personal preference?

Kev.

To be honest for me in my setup it was like night and day. The whole soundstage opened up, instruments separated out from one another. I could tell what certain instruments were and where they sat. I stated in the original thread it was like a veil being lifted, and i never considered the NDX veiled until i heard Hugo.

Some have mentioned they think Hugo is bass light, but i can't say i have felt that. However i would say it doesn't add bass, it just plays it as it is. I find it very natural sounding.

I use it with a digital coax out from the NDX. I don't have a Naim system, only an NDX, so maybe this has something to do with it. What system are using.

Graeme

It does beg the question, what's the point of professional reviews?  It seems clear to me now, that the rest of the system has a major influence on the perceived performance of a piece of equipment under review independent of any personal preference/bias a reviewer may have. 

Either way, we've both found something that works for us and at the end of the day, that's what counts...

Hugo replaced a 555PS on my NDX and introduced a level of sophistication which, put simply, makes the music more real. 

Graeme

Hi Kerills1, welcome to the forum, I must admit I have my NDX as well as Hugo and like Graeme the latter is night and day to the NDX - but my NDX is a good stand by if my Hugo has gone portable ( which luckily doesn't happen too often)

But yes system synergy is important - and clearly a more revealing system is going to provide greater insight and also expose other potential shortcomings, and a less revealing system will filter out more subtle capabilities - hence the need for synergy. Most professional reviews that are worth their salt IMO list all the equipment used in the demo as well as the recordings used.

Simon

Interesting - I could hear very clear differences between the NDX/XPS and NDX when using the coax out and very much preferred the former. That said, I'd always used my NDX with the XPS up until the time I did the comparison so I perhaps taking the XPS out meant I was using circuits that I hadn't used before so perhaps it needed a running in?

It's occurred to me that there are two versions of the XPS, an earlier and later model.  Perhaps this is adding to the diversity of results that people have experienced.  Who can say?  Maybe somebody out there has done a back to back comparison of the two XPS versions but then the results will depend on the rest of the system.

My head hurts. I'm going to listen to some music....

Hi Allen,

If you did, what would you do about N Stream, Naim app.....?

Dusty ducks for cover!!!

I've borrowed a run-in Hugo to go with my bare NDX (552/500/555/NAT01/PMC PB1a). 

I faffed around a bit getting it to work and selecting the RCA inputs on the pre-amp and listened away this afternoon.

Playlist was stoner rock Samsara Blues Experiment (Revelation & Mystery), classical Dvorak 9 (Davis/LSO live 24 bit), electronic Kettel (Ibb & Obb OST), krautrock Kosmischer Laufer (Volume One).

First impressions were that my socks remained well and truly on my feet. The Hugo was better: a little more bass, a little tighter; cleaner when things got hectic; more air and ambience around everything. But not to the degree I was expecting given the general reaction to it (not just here I might add).

Then I discovered the volume by-pass option. Ah.

I quickly put the Samsara Blues Experiment (not a great recording, which is why I chose it) and heard a big improvement...but tempered witht the fact I had a volume mismatch now that rendered the Hugo quite a bit louder than the analogue output from the NDX.

And then the family happened and all tests were postponed. Until tomorrow. 

A dealer friend of mine was very sceptical of the Hugo and had been encouraging me to have an NDS/555 for demo at home ......... until he came to my place the other week and heard the Hugo in my system. He felt there was no point. He also liked the simplicity of the MacMini/iTunes/Audirvana/RAID.  Nuff said. 

I'm with your dealer friend on the simplicity thing.

Yes but iTunes/Mac/Audirvana (which has a very poor user interface in my opinion)/NAS is not always that simple...

Amusingly my dealer friend says that Hugos make great headphone amps but they don't have a place in main systems...

He needs his bumps feeling then in my view 

Luckily my dealer sells 500 Series systems, NDSs and Hugo's (quite a lot of them apparently) - and they definitely appreciate what the Hugo offers to many lovers of recorded music - but isn't it great to have a choice?