NDX!

Posted by: T38.45 on 08 March 2011

Yesterday evening, I received the NDX+XPS for home demo on 252-250-S600.
After unpacking and connecting the NDX (it took me roughly 15min to setup and connect)- I could start the session. Entering the WLAN key tooks most of the time... I used WLAN and LAN directly.
My benchmark is the Majik DS+NDAC I run for months now, my music is stored on 2x QNAP with flac, mp3 and some wav (ripped cd, linnrecords, hdtracks etc)
I started with web-radio.... and I was not sure what I got here...it sounds almost too good for a "pooor" web stream! Switched on another station- and again- a wooow- "how can this be?" Music stands in my room- incredible good! It floats out of my S600 and the system is not even warm- folks, this was WEB radio...
Now to the hard stuff...I changed to upnp NAS with G.F.Handel "Ariodante" (flac cd quality). To make it short: simply not from this world....this combo swings Mr.Handel like hell! My first impression: Naim builds his gear with body, earth, blood and sweat and soul- I have no clue how they do it, but they do it better than anybody out there! If you compare it with Linn gear ( I audit few weeks ago Klimax DS), you may find that KDS is more "airy" and very transparent. Linn reminds me on a painting from Chagall I saw on a church window...you can look through the window and see the colour...Naim is more like Caravaggio's painting: darker, lighter, colourful- and the body is there...
Changed music to Steely Dan (Aja)...comparing with MDS+NDAC: more details, better bass- no MUCH better bass, more swing...more 3D- "Hi Walter- how are you?", and again- more body (how can I describe this,,,,?)
Through the evening Bach, Scarlatti, Manu Katche and Christina Pluhar joined me- with alomst and incredible physical presentation of their art....great!
Should I test the NDX+NDAC or the NDAC+XPS? No, I don't want because NDX+XPS is exactly what I was hoping to find....and yes- my dealer got the call this morning, the combo doesn't go back:-)

Dear Naim- thank you for the pleasure and sorry for my bad english!

Ralf
(please hurry up with the ipad control SW!!!!!)

Posted on: 17 March 2011 by AMA

Originally Posted by james n:

Frank - how is it that LINN SMPS supplies (supposedly) cause problems and Naim SMPS (HDX / N-Vi / Serve) don't ?

My ADS doesn't seem to cause any issues with my system ?

James

Posted on: 18 March 2011 by RudiNee

Quote: Regarding the Linn, I hope it's not on the same power block. Its SMPS will interfere with the rest of the system

My Majik DS is plugged into the same powerblock as my nDAC, NAP200, FC2X. Is this a problem? I have a monster powerblock with 8 sockets with all my hifi gear plugged in. Does this compromise the sound quality? I never heard of this phenomena ...

Please explain somewhat more if I can uprade sound with a small change?

Regards,
Rudi

Posted on: 18 March 2011 by AMA

Rudi, all home systems comprise of a big number of small elements so that it's very difficult to predict how it will go in your particular case.

I suggest you experimenting with plugging MDS into a separate power strip which is hooked on the separate wall outlet. You may find (or may not) the improvement in clarity because FC may work better when it's away from SMPS.

Alternatively you may put naim PLs on MDS and FC and leave them on the same spur -- this may fit for purpose.

Ultimately you should do the both.

Like you I'm using SMPS streamer (Logitech Transporter) as a transport to nDAC/XPS.
And I did both -- put PL on TP and hooked it on a different power strip/outlet.

Posted on: 18 March 2011 by pcstockton

Originally Posted by RudiNee:

My Majik DS is plugged into the same powerblock as my nDAC, NAP200, FC2X. Is this a problem? I have a monster powerblock with 8 sockets with all my hifi gear plugged in. Does this compromise the sound quality? I never heard of this phenomena ...

Please explain somewhat more if I can uprade sound with a small change?

Where do you live? Mains blocks, and relative options thereof, vary wildly from country to country.

But in all cases it seems that "power blocks" especially those with "filtering/conditioning" of some kind, can negatively impact an entire system.

There are a handful of tried and true options for where you live, and I am guessing the Monster brand might not show up on any lists.

In the US you should aim for a Cablepro, Audience or Wiremold. Talk to your local dealer as well.

Regarding the DS. Please try it on the monster, and plugged directly into the wall. Then make sure to let us all know the results! If you have enough wall sockets, try eliminating the Monster altogether (just for fun).

-patrick

Posted on: 19 March 2011 by Plinko

Originally Posted by AMA:

I suggest you experimenting with plugging MDS into a separate power strip which is hooked on the separate wall outlet.

Further to this i would suggest connecting this linn to a separate circuit. The separate wall outlet may or may not be on the same circuit as the rest of the system.

Posted on: 19 March 2011 by lawoftrust

Has anybody here already compared NDX vs ADS or KDS?

Posted on: 19 March 2011 by Kev T

I have heard NDX solo after a few days use against the ADS, and then again a week later with the addition of an XPS again up against the ADS. Both were on Fraim at the same dealers through 282/SC/250 into Proac D1.

In both instances I found the ADS superior.

Posted on: 19 March 2011 by lhau

Kev-t I wonder in what way superior? I auditioned md-i Maybe the power amp is letting it down. It may have good treble and higher resolution, but I found it lifeless. Maybe it can win surely for a Capella or other soloist type of recordings with it's delicate and elegant treble, bur it just does not sound full body as a naim. I read review with a bias against the naim uniti but after audition, I would not imagine getting any linn. Is the kds or ads totally different in sound?

Posted on: 19 March 2011 by pylod

i heard one yesterday for the first time through a 202/200 ovator 400 series. it played flac files from a thetered server.

it was 3 days on power and i really hope it will improve. i made a new appointment for 2 weeks later.

there was a lot of detail and the flow of music was good. it though sounded thin ( compared, what i know from my tt. i don´t own a cd player anymore and had a cds2 before ) and the the tweeters produced a really bright sometimes metallic sound.not smooth at all. i really hope this improves. i am very interested in a ndx, but would not buy one under those circumstances.

by the way . is it possible to connect the serve directy with the ndx as an npnp server ? or do i need to make the step over a switcher ? that would mean, that i need to run twice a cable through the whole room ( my nas and switcher and internet connection is behind the sofa on the other side of the room ), if i decide to place the seve together with the ndx on the fraim ?

Posted on: 19 March 2011 by RudiNee

Regarding the DS. Please try it on the monster, and plugged directly into the wall. Then make sure to let us all know the results! If you have enough wall sockets, try eliminating the Monster altogether

I'm going to do some experimenting next week ... The separate spur however is difficult. I have 2 wall sockets but they are both on the same group. I can experiment with 1) the naim gear on a separate block with no filters (going to talk to my dealer to hear what a good choice is) and 2) the MDS on the filtered monster block and last the MDS on the second wall socket. I'll keep you posted.

2nd
Why do poor recordings just sound worst on better equipment

Sometimes the MDS/nDAC combo sounds a bit thin. It had a lot of space, very detailed and open bu a bit cold. Is this debit to the MDS or is it just the poor recording.
Further would it make a difference adding a XPS in the future? Does this give the nDac a bit of spice in the ...

Cheers,
Rudi.

Posted on: 20 March 2011 by lawoftrust

Did anybody compare NDX with nDAc or XPS? Which addition creates bigger improvement?

Posted on: 21 March 2011 by Red Rooster

Originally Posted by AMA:

Originally Posted by james n:

Frank - how is it that LINN SMPS supplies (supposedly) cause problems and Naim SMPS (HDX / N-Vi / Serve) don't ?

My ADS doesn't seem to cause any issues with my system ?

James

James, I guess all SMPS contaminate the mains to some degree. It does not hurt Linn equipment as much as Naim.

In my case I auditioned HDX and KDS with the Naim system and despite this KDS was much better than HDX. I guess if I had put KDS on a separate spur the KDS superiority could have been even more pronounced. From the memory I think ADS is also better source than HDX.

If you are using Naim amps I guess it's better to decouple ADS from the amps -- for example hook ADS on a separate spur.

Hi folks,

Couldn't disagree more. Tried my ADS both on the same power block (Experience filtration) and off and to my ears made no difference. Mix and match Linn/Naim to your hearts content.

Positioning the kit and cable dressing however does make a difference IMHO.

If anyone is thinking of a "single box" unit for their Naim kit -do not be put off by the soothesayers!

ttfn

RR

Posted on: 21 March 2011 by sbilotta

Originally Posted by lawoftrust:

Did anybody compare NDX with nDAc or XPS? Which addition creates bigger improvement?

Best results with the PSU, as per my previous post on this thread.

Posted on: 21 March 2011 by Frank Abela

Rudi,

If your Monster powerblock has filtration try this:

Play some music, a complete track.
Unplug your power amp from the power block and plug it directly into the other wall socket.
Play the track again.

Is there a difference? I submit that you'll probably notice quite a difference.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Posted on: 21 March 2011 by lawoftrust

Allan, I agree and I expected the NDX to clearly show the MDS a pair of heels but that did not happen yet. I very much like the integration of the NDX into my Naim chain though and would very much like it to stay for that reason but only if it ( at least with the XPS2) sounds better to me than an ADS.

Posted on: 21 March 2011 by T38.45

Strange...my NDX was cold even better than my MDS&NDAC...

@Lawoftrust: had a discussion with my dealer today... he recommends clearly a PSU rather than NDAC as NDX upgrade...

atb

ralf

Posted on: 21 March 2011 by lawoftrust

Ralf, Is your dealer located in Karlsruhe? Georg

Posted on: 21 March 2011 by T38.45

Hi Georg,

I have two dealers, one in KA, one in S...but bought most of my gear in KA!

Posted on: 21 March 2011 by lawoftrust

Same here, S and KA, you need somebody in Botnang for your Lp12?

Posted on: 21 March 2011 by Dustysox

Hi,

Thinking of going NDX route. What config would you guys reommend with my already NDAC powered by XPS?

Use XPS to power NDX leaving NDAC self powered or just "plug" NDX into NDAC already powered by XPS?

As always, thank you for all advice.

Posted on: 21 March 2011 by T38.45

My older Linn gear comes from there - where are you from Georg? Munich?

Posted on: 21 March 2011 by Asenna04

Originally Posted by Dustysox:

In my view the PS should go to the unit making the music (analog audio signal). So in this case keep it on the nDAC.

However don't discount just the NDX with the XPS on it. A lot of people have found that to be better then the 3 box solution.

ASenna04

Posted on: 21 March 2011 by lawoftrust

From Stuttgart, non-native :-)

Posted on: 21 March 2011 by T38.45

:-)

Posted on: 22 March 2011 by AMA

Originally Posted by AllenB:

Originally Posted by lawoftrust:

After intensive comparisons between MDS and NDX for Four days now, I still have no clear preference, Linn sounds more open, naim a bit more forward. Will probably compare ADS and/or KDS against NDX/XPS2 or PS555 to decode which route to go in the long run. MDS is quite amazing for the money.

I am sure Naim might be quite disappointed by your findings since the NDX is clearly pitched up against the ADS, not the MDS.

I don't think so -- since Naim commercials put the price tag below ADS. The history says that whatever sounds on par with Linn is usually priced over when getting a Naim label on it

Possibly NDX/XPS can sound the same open and transparent as ADS but you have to be a serious Naim devotee to buy this pack as it robs you of much more cash than ADS.

On the other hand NDX/XPS paves the way to NDX/nDAC/XPS -- and I can say that my streamer with nDAC/XPS sings on the same level as KDS (open and transparent) but with clearly better transients and bass punch. Possibly NDX/nDAC/555PS can outperform KDS at a bigger margin -- but I'm not sure it can be the same smooth as KDS on Red Books (I was really impressed with KDS on Red Books).

But if you like Naim sound signature and want go nDAC route you can buy MDS and use it as a digital streamer for future nDAC/XPS and again save money against NDX.

These considerations take me to the conclusion that a bare NDX is a direct MDS rival (as usual with Naim -- a bit overpriced