Not happy with mac mini; should I go NDX?
Posted by: dk2 on 15 March 2011
I have a mac mini connected to a hard drive, running headlessly through a toslink to a nDAC/200/202/HC/NAPSC but I am not delirious with the SQ. All music is apple lossless, however if I convert a track to WAV and play it via a memory stick directly through the nDAC things sound MUCH better.
As I see it, I could tweak the things I have: Halide Bridge instead of toslink and Amarra instead of iTunes (I've tried Pure Music and I've tried Decibel, neither makes loads of difference, but the very expensive Amarra full version - allowing gapless playback which is important - does). Alternatively I could p/x the nDAC for an NDX.
I assume if I get the NDX I will need to buy a NAS and possibly a cheap PC, rather than use my mac to power things; is that correct?
My main question though is should I do the tweaks or buy the (not loads more expensive when all is said and done) NDX?
Any thoughts will be very gratefully received.
David
Posted on: 15 March 2011 by james n
If you go to the NDX (listen to the Linn equivalents too) then just use the Mac as a UPnP server.to deliver the music files to the renderer.
James
Posted on: 15 March 2011 by DavidDever
Inasmuch as you already have a DAC, why not consider a UnitiServe?
This will give you better rips, therefore better sound quality right at source–you'll also get gapless playback as well as the ability to use your existing Apple Lossless library right from the start.
You can control the UnitiServe from the iPad or iPhone/iPod touch using the n-Serve app, and, lastly, the UnitiServe will sit oh-so-nicely next to your HiCap (much like the system we showed at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest in the States):
Posted on: 15 March 2011 by james n
Cue Tog...
Posted on: 15 March 2011 by garyi
A NAS is a good thing, but in the interim you can use the mini, simply turn on sharing and make sure SMB sharing is switched on and that its pointing to the music folder. Then you need to install a UPNP server software such as twony (Although not twonky because its a steaming turd of a programme)
Posted on: 15 March 2011 by Tog
You called .....
Inasmuch as you already have a DAC, why not consider Simon Rattle?
As you can see I am nolonger happy with either my Mac Mini or VB powered Togserve but instead of the NDX/UnitiServe I have built my system around the Beatles as streamer, Simon Rattle as amplification (he is expensive and the running costs are huge!) and a HAL 9000 music server running Paranoid Linux.
Instead of a Fraim Lite (sic) I have built my own rack from Formica offcuts, soup tins and cats whiskers for isolation.
Tog
Posted on: 15 March 2011 by likesmusic
Eat cake.
Posted on: 15 March 2011 by Tog
"Qu'ils mangent de la brioche",
Tog
Posted on: 15 March 2011 by gav111n
David,
I have no fixed opinion on 'do the tweaks' or 'buy an NDX' but here's my thoughts anyway:
I expect most people will prefer the sound from USB stick rather than optical-out from a mac.
In the context of my system, I have improved the sound over USB stick but it has taken an INT202+DC1+decent firewire cable, so that's about £1.1k of extra stuff (macbookpro feeding nDAC). Getting a demo of the various interfaces may be awkward. Keith at Purite would probably let you have a go with an INT202 if you are UK based but in my experience you also need a good digi-coax and FW cable to make it a fair test.
I highly rate Decibel but find Amarra (limited trials) only 'good' and not worth the money. Top of the tree for me is Audirvana, however I am not sure that this is accessible remotely. Your opinion on the range of software players may change with a decent interface between mac and nDAC.
There are various OSX tweaks that IMO have a real effect on SQ but those kind of things are going to be messy with a headless macmini.
So, if your aim is to reach or beat USB stick then in my experience you can do it by optimising the mac but it costs real money and you are taking a risk as demos are not so easy.
The naim alternatives, will be optimised, easily demo'ed, supported and look sexy (admit it, you really want another cool naim box).
If you are desperate to splurge some money then I like David Dever's thinking. If in doubt, do nothing. Enjoy the macmini for normal listening. Use USB when you want to seriously listen. Have a play with a serve and NDX in your system and enjoy the demo process. Keep hold of your money until the right thing comes along. I am sure there will be more naim streaming alternatives in the pipeline.
Gav
Posted on: 15 March 2011 by Guido Fawkes
I expect most people will prefer the sound from USB stick rather than optical-out from a mac.
True for me especially using the rear USB port.
In the context of my system, I have improved the sound over USB stick but it has taken an INT202+DC1+decent firewire cable, so that's about £1.1k of extra stuff
I had a hiFace and tried the INT202 and MF VLink, I preferred the MF VLink - surprised me too. It is a great piece of kit that requires no drivers. Of course this may just be in the context of my system and I am one of those peculiar folk who can't tell the difference between two identical files ripped in different ways. I'd say all three were very good ways to make a Mac work better in to a Naim digital input and it'll come down to personal preference.
I did not find Pure Music to improve on iTunes either, which I know is at odds with some others' findings. I went back to ITunes after trying some other players.
I guess if you use a UnitiServe then you forget trying to improve the computer source. So again a good solution. I don't believe all this better rips stuff though and I honestly can't hear an improvement over plain old iTunes when it comes to ripping a decent quality CD; perhaps with some scratched ones.
All the best, Guy
Posted on: 16 March 2011 by aht
David,
I will just chime in here and say that the Toslink is the Weaklink in your setup. Optical out from a Mac will never sound very good into the nDac. I recommend M2 Evo, which will take USB out from your Mac and convert it to coax SPDIF. I'm using such a setup, and it sounds fab.
Posted on: 17 March 2011 by meissmar
Well, after listening to my own NDX for a while now, I would say that the NDX will be a significant upgrade to your system. It's not just better than the MAC output but it also has a much different presentation sompared to digital sources (CD players, DAC) because the musical flow is so good.
I think you should listen to your options at your dealer and let your ears decide. I would never go back to using the DAC with any input compared to what the NDX does, even on its own.
Posted on: 20 March 2011 by dk2
I have an NDX on loan and wow, chalk and cheese doesn't begin to describe the difference between it and listening to my mac mini through toslink and nDAC.
I give the loan one back on Tuesday and I'll place my order for a new one then too...
Thanks for all your comments and thoughts.
David
Posted on: 20 March 2011 by Mr Underhill
Hi dk2,
Great.
Out of interest did you try:
1. Playing the MAC thru the DAC section of the NDX?
2. Adding the nDAC to the NDX?
If you did - thoughts?
M
Posted on: 21 March 2011 by dk2
Sorry Mr U, didn't.
Logically, 1 shouldn't improve things as, I believe, the DAC in the nDAC is better than the DAC in the NDX..?
I don't want to try the nDAC with the NDX as I want to trade the nDAC in, not be tempted to buy the NDX as well!
Posted on: 21 March 2011 by gav111n
David,
Your opening issue was that macmini(optical) into nDAC didn't sound as good as USB stick into nDAC, so what's your opinion of 'NDX' versus 'USB stick into nDAC'? That comparison must have been high in your mind when evaluating the NDX.
Gav.
Posted on: 21 March 2011 by dk2
Hi Gav
Very similar. If I'm honest, I didn't do a direct comparison. My motivation in this has been that the SQ from the mac was just not good enough to justify the 200/202/HC/NAPSC amplification. The USB stick/nDAC was many miles better and the NDX a similarly huge improvement. I may be wrong, and I have no intention of starting anything, but to my ears, taking the mac bit out and replacing everything to do with reproducing the (now FLAC) files from the storage with Naim products has made the difference. I firmly believe that the mac and/or toslink were the weak links.
Incidentally, the one thing that made a very big (although not as big as taking the mac out of the equation to me), was the addition of Amarra full (trial) version. It was so expensive though, that I decided to put the money towards the NDX; the 'without compromise' solution as I see it.
David
Posted on: 21 March 2011 by gav111n
Enjoy your NDX David!
I bet in a few months time you'll be so proud of your NDX 'baby' that you won't want it mixing with a common NAS. You'll want it to make friends with a 'nice' n-Serve.
Gav
Posted on: 21 March 2011 by Vince H.
I'm personally picking up an nDac and to use with a mac. I would:
1) avoid toslink and use a USB converter - Legato, Evo, V-link (no need to spend beaucoup bucks on a Weiss interface)
2) playback files via memory mode in Decibel, Audirvana, or another player
Toslink from the mac is a poor connection in my experience with a Chord dac, and in no way representative of what a mac transport can do.
