Is Naim dying?

Dear Gary,

Anyone can tweak anything. But with computer audio you do not actually need to. That was my point. 

People who want to tweak will not be put off it just because I don't.

I never quite end tweaking my Carlton, and the result is sublime, but so is my replay, which is not tweaked!

ATB from George

Those who enjoy tinkering with kit still post, just on other forums.

George i agree one does not need to tweak the computer audio stuff, but it seems more people do than ever before in comparison with something as basic as a CD player which in all fairness was about as simple as it got. Personally i see the computer audio thing as a tweakers paradise, but i like yourself have no interest in doing so.

Best,

Gary.

Down to Earth Meister Gary!

Thanks and ATB from George

For example, Nac 52 (1990)......Nac 252 (2002)...........Dav V-252 (????)

Sorry, being facetious but my point here is that what you describe has only happened with streaming. If you don't want Naim's streaming module, the story is quite different. There is still not a dedicated DAC PSU (the near 20-year old XPS has six rails for use with the old CD players). The NAP 250 has been going for nearly 40 years in various colours. A broad and long-running range of speakers replaced in the noughties by three large non-boundary floorstanders only.

What there has been is tonnes of network players, hard disk storage units, all-in-ones etc.

Or just resting?

Maybe pining for the Salisbury Fiords

You are quite correct, I was trying to refer to the newer streaming and all in ones.

thanks.

Like any other social activity, the forum is only as good as its contributors.

I thoroughly enjoy reading many of the posts, even when they are about equipment or issues that don't really affect me directly. And it is an invaluable resource to me for new music, or at least music that is new to me.

i don't particularly want to re-hash the analogue vs. digital debate or the CD vs streaming one. I have a farly large collection of both vinyl and CD (about 5,000 of each). I'm not ashamed of either (well, only some!).

I chose to buy a system that would allow near-instant access to all my CD's. After quite extensive listening to a number of other manufacturers offerings, I chose to buy a Uniti2 because I enjoyed how it sounded. I've not had cause to regret that choice. If I win the Euro lottery tomorrow, then I'll probably   be more interested in the cables posts! 

Naim must continue to innovate and offer products which appeal to a wide range of prospective customers simply to survive. I think they do a good job of that and hope they continue to prosper.

Happy listening,

Vlad

You're point that these products feel samey is right. They may be functional but are less inspiring. The attempts to capture streaming market-share will continue with the Muso trying for even broader appeal. Meanwhile the pre-amp range, which was once the crown jewels, has been left behind. That may well be a good business decision but it signals a change in direction which is not for some.

Some of the existing streamers and hard-disk servers will be landfill in 10 years time unlike the chrome-bumper 250's and olive 72's which will still be going strong. The concept of source-->pre-->power retains modularity and thereby avoids obsolescence. As DAC technology is so mature nowadays you can put that in the pre at the expense of selling less boxes. Which is another topic.

People don't want lots of boxes nowadays. Living space is endlessly squeezed with exorbitant housing costs and those totem pole stacks of black boxes look very silly indeed to many people. There seems to have been not enough time spent yet on miniaturisation and embedding better regulation (DR) in sources and pre-amps etc. If another company can deliver this and retain Naim's sound quality (and some are trying) then perhaps they will capture some of the existing customers as new customers come into Naim.

I can't agree that Naim streamers and all-in-ones are not inspiring - mine has inspired me to play, listen and explore more music. Isn't that the point?

I do agree with you re: box count and miniaturisation - provided quality is maintained.

What we need to get our heads around is that the methods of delivering music are changing. CD sales are declining, vinyl is pretty much a niche interest and is a mature technology with little scope for radical improvement.

The battle for the technology of future of music delivery has already been won by digital. Eventually, we will lose downloads and have streaming on demand when the network can deliver high transfer rates throughout the country.

Delivery via wires is the future and Naim are right to pursue this technology. It's also what new, younger customers expect. If only we could persuade them not to listen to low-res material and the UK market wasn't getting stiffed on price for CD-quality or higher downloads!

It sure doesn't feel like Naim is dying when I'm listening  to my wonderful SN2 ! The fact that you can even post such a question on the Naim forum speaks volumes about Naims integrity and  what a great company it is. Try posting  this kind of  question on the heavily moderated , mean spirited Harbeth forum. Naim is evolving ,but it's spirit is intact IMO. Go Naim !

Someone who hasn't posted in 14 months asks if Naim is dying.  Asks if the forum is dying.  Where have you been, O.P?

After 14 months of not posting, the best you can do is this? 

Maybe the question can be restated as, "Is lajlaj's interest in Naim dying?"  Don't confuse the two questions.

My Naim is alive and well! It'll be getting plenty of use over the coming autumn & winter months as outside interests (the garden) take a back seat. 

Im sure I'll make more contributions to the forum during that time - unless I'm too busy listening to music! 

I'm 53 years old. Not exactly young. Just because Naim makes makes streamers doesn't make me feel like I'm being  being put out to pasture or discriminated against because I'm not in 20's. Company's  and technology change and evolve or become extinct. 

Nor should it Drew; Naim would have been extremely foolish to not hop on the streaming bandwagon.  Perhaps better, suicidal.  Whether we like it or not, that is the direction everything is moving towards.

I don't own a Naim streamer, hanging right now with a SB Touch for financial reasons...as well as a feeling that the longer streaming exists, the better Naim (and everyone else) will get at it, and perhaps even pricing will come down as is often the case as a new technology matures.

I am very pleased with my Naim kit, and my only concern is the corporate buyout, which I hope will not greatly change the way things are done in Salisbury.

Well said. Streaming is really still in it's infancy. Things can only get better and perhaps less expensive. 

Inevitable evolution?

Go back 50 or 60 years and some enthusiasts were building their kit (and housing furniture) from scratch - not to mention piling wheelbarrows of sand into a corner enclosure.

Those guys would have found this forum boring ten years ago.

The old Naim forum was a lot more sparky; particularly with contributions from Julian Vereker.

We currently live in a computer world (or so Kraftwerk told me) - and reports of 'Fault 36' and the like can get a bit tedious.

John.

Maybe the OP's not been well  Or maybe has spent the intervening time posting the same question in other forums and is slowly working through the alphabet?

We recently had friends staying with us on holiday, they have money and are tech. savvy. I showed them my listening room and they were totally underwhelmed. I did not try and change their attitude. A few days later I was listening to some music casually in the living room when they returned from a day out. They were caught off guard by the Naim sound, coming from a nigh-on invisible box (Qute2) and small PMC 20.21 speakers. The music was Mika Vainio's 'Kilo' and the response from the guests was that it was like having 'a large invisible dragon lurking in the room', a sound huge, strange and beyond their expectations of what was possible from something smaller than the size of a shoe-box. Needless to say my guests became interested in the music and how it was arriving! We were all up into the small hours discussing methods old and new. In essence it was the sound quality that hooked them and the simplicity of the systems that retained their interest.

Naim. Smart kit for a new audience. Life goes on.

If members of a forum are going to get shot down in flames every time they express an opinion whether it be positive or negative (as long as it's honest and without insult) then surely there is only one way this will end.

A belief is just that - an opinion hoping you are right.

The two forums I look at just about every day are this one and Steve Hoffmann's music forum. That tells you something about me but also something about how I value this forum and Naim.

Whilst the last Naim products I purchased were the DR upgrades, and excellent they are, I am not particularly interested in all the 'new' digital releases but I am interested in Naim and consider them alive, kicking and moving forward.

Richard 

I just don't get this streaming thing is still in its infancy thing .. With respect this has to be false. I was dabbling along with many of my colleagues with Streaming in the late 90s with Slingbox, computer streaming as well mp3., and yes back then it was more the hardened perhaps well healed enthusiast that did streaming rather than being mainstream but was flourishing. Streaming was in its infancy in around 1998 and it was fun all those years ago. We have perhaps seen a convergence of computer/network audio between technology specialists and more established hifi companies and consumer tech brands but to be fair Meridian Audio probably saw the possibilities before many others. However it's certainly not in its infancy, and we are several generations into its evolutionary maturity and perhaps it has become slightly boring, mainstream and reliable now from a technology point of view.

DCC, minidisc, to name a few have come and gone in that time.

Simon

If people want sparky interaction on the Forum, then it's up to them to provide it. A Forum is only as good as its contributors. It's not something to read, like a newspaper, and be entertained. 

When I started with Naim, over 30 years ago, there were so many Hifi enthusiasts around, buying Linn, Naim, Rega etc by the barrow load. We were all obsessed with music, spending every Saturday in the record shop. The world has changed, with computer games and iTunes competing for young people's time and money. For Naim to survive, they have had to change.

Personally, I think they've done rather well. Instead of six boxes on two racks, and all my walls covered in CD shelving, I now have one box (and a little server) that does it all. My house is clutter free and yet the music still sounds great. That would never have happened 30 years ago.

The world of Naim is neither better not worse, just different.

 My John Lennon collection was getting out of control, so I took 'steps' 

I'm always amused when people use "IMHO" and the like. As if we'd otherwise assume they are arrogant or expressing someone else's opinion. Get shot down? Well, that's part of the forum experience. Say what you think or you might as well say "baaa".