Is Naim dying?

Naim must be doing something (or a lot) right, to be able to put all that costly and time consuming R&D work into the Statement amplifier - and have the market confidence that it will sell.

I'm looking forward to my first exposure to the beast at the 'Signals' show at the end of the month.

John.

Yes, I know. I was making an analogy to product release and approach to new technology, though feel free to be as pedantic as you like. 

It's rolling on the floor laughing.

I suppose that if one makes little or no effort understand the history and ethos of Naim, where they've  come from, and realies what "new" means in the Naim universe, one could be accused of tending to crassness. Naim may now be part of a larger group but it's not called Kia.

From time to time a topic appears which smacks of boredom, narcissism or desperation. I think the frequency is rising.

OK, I will.

I was replying to the post above mine by 'benjy', not yours.

G

Oh, my apologies Graeme. Missed that one. And I suppose commenting on a forum is alway about being pedantic!

Absolutely not Jude. I'm musing in general and am not attempting to have a pop at anyone.

Some of us have been here fifteen or more years, in previous iterations of the Naim forum, three versions in my case. It goes through phases and cycles. Everything does. Time was when it was particularly inhospitable, as opposed to plain cliquey. Right now I think it's neither of these. Meanwhile, over the fence, the opposite has happened. And round it goes.

No worries Charles.

There was a period a few years back on the Leica Forum where doom and gloom and the 'death' of Leica was being prophesied - which is parallel to the thrust of the OP.

Perfecting one or two 'types' I guess only takes a company so far...I still prefer the M8 to the 9 or 'M'. Particularly for B&W but there's a big market for those who always want 'the next model' and trade up within a few years or months even - Do they ever take any pictures I sometimes wonder?

So, similarities with audiophiles in lots of ways.

G

Have you tried the Monochrom? That is seriously the one camera that will be with me for the rest of my life. Even though it's based exactly on the M9, the build quality is superlative to my M9 (which was an early one). The M8 was/is a fantastic camera and great value on the used market. 

Yeah, Leica have come roaring back. I remember when the death knell was being rung you could pick up used lenses for practically next to nothing. Two to three years later after the intro of digital bodies those lenses were suddenly worth 2-3X the price! It's settled back now but it was crazy for awhile. 

One of the reasons I went with Naim gear is that it reminds me of my Leicas - black boxes that one can probably use for a lifetime with proper care and maintenance, with looks and function that are timeless. 

Yeah, my camera dealer and I call it the 'camera of the month' club. Really they just shoot brick walls and compare corner resolution. Sort of like high end hifi heads who spend more time playing test tones to burn in speakers than they do actual music. For me, it's about finding a piece of gear that works for me (I am a pro; ex-music photographer) and sticking with it to create a style. I have tried some of the mirror less things (Sony RX1, Ricoh, etc) and they always get sold almost immediately as I the Leicas just work with minimal amount of fuss. Of course I have a Nikon for those times I say need to hang out of a helicopter, etc etc. 

Fun to find a fellow Leica fan on here. btw, we named our daughter Leica (she's two now). My wife's idea really (she's German). People love the name, though most don't know the source!

You better stop at one...although I guess if you had another girl she could be 'Leica II'...if you had a boy you could call him 'Mark 1' .

M8 is well above my capabilities. I use it with a 40mm Summicron exclusively which I got during the 'dip' for £180!

G

First one is five and named Felix. And we're done. If there was to be third, kinda doubt my wife would go for the name Naim. Guess it would have to be Hugo then....

Noooooo! 

'Muso' surely!

G

Cool.  I have misunderstood you.

 I appreciate your point, not sure of a solution though.  

My position is that I'm sure Naim know what they are doing and have a strategy that is well thought out (We just don't know exactly it is)

Have a great weekend

Jude 

Is Naim dying???  Just got a an ND5 XS on home demo and the answer based on this is emphatically NO. Sound quality and ease of use first class.

perhaps a more apt comparison would be between leica and kodak-both strived for the "best" in film photography, and yet only one fully made the transition to a completely different type of photography.A company like naim is sort of in the same situation.It used to be easier to develop "better" equipment,but now the type of delivery has altered enough that better/best in the wrong technology won't necessarily be  enough. Btw.-long-time contax (film) user -just to be contrary,but due to physical limitations (wheel-chair bound-primarily) rarely pursue photography anymore,\. but music helps

I empathise completely Benjy.  

G

I've joined the Naim family quite recently. I was drawn to Naim because they offered great audio quality and a low level of friction in a one or two box system. Not having to think about interconnects, speaker cable etc. was very attractive to me. Matching speakers is hard enough on it's own!

Friction can be important. A couple of years ago we got a B&W A5 for the kitchen. Since then my wife's been listening to more music and radio than ever because it's so easy to use with her iOS devices. I think the Muso's connectivity will appeal to many families. Reducing perceived and real friction will make Naim's products appeal to a broader range of customers.

I seriously considered a SuperUniti, but I was concerned about how it handles current and future subscription services. If it had the DAC-V1's asynchronous USB input the decision would have been much harder.

The NAD D 3020 I use on my desk convinced me that at this time a USB DAC was the way to go to get the most flexible computer based audio system. Using the iOS Remote app to control the our AIFF iTunes Library and our radio playlists makes for a friction free music listening. Connecting to an Apple TV requires an input change but that's not too bad now it's programmed in a Logitech remote.

My perfect; perhaps unrealistic, solution would be a two box Naim system. A DAC-V1 with network player, the Muso's wireless connectivity and a NAP 200 in a half width box. In the meantime I bought my first Naim boxes, a DAC-V1 and NAP 100 about six weeks ago and am enjoying them immensely.

Naim isn't dead but it is evolving, perhaps more quickly than ever. Hopefully there will be room for those who want one, two or many boxes.

I have followed the discussion here about where in the streaming lifecycle we are. My take is that local streaming (Airplay, Bluetooth, UPnP) is quite mature but internet streaming is some way behind. Radio is in reasonable shape, but subscription streaming services are proving complicated to integrate.

More often than not the issues are commercial rather than technical. Sonos has done the best job until now, but they don't support all the services and where they do support a service it can be limited e.g. Beats.

I think it's increasingly important that network/streaming products provide a range of wireless connectivity from smartphones, tablets and computers to their players. Companies like Naim are only going to be able to support a limited number of services natively.

I think Naim realise that things are changing very quickly - hence Muso. 

Tog

DAC V1 - like form factor - too low end on s.q.

NAP 100 - like form factor - too low end on s.q., shoebox power amp first done in 1979.

Fascinatingly wrong!

ATB from George

Yes.  Naim, like the entire HiFi industry, is slowly dying.

And yet Naim is growing!

Of course we are all dying to some degree from the day of birth even though for the first two decades we are also clearly also growing ... some continue to grow in girth for decades after that!

Life is full of enigmas!

ATB from George

On a flip side - It could be the lack of high quality new music that is killing the HIFI industry.

I could never keep up with it all at one point, now I struggle to buy anything no matter what genre, you can only go back so often, then you can end up getting bored with it all.

A lack of good quality new music that I can relate to is a big problem for me at the moment.

Perhaps, but I have never met a person who, upon hearing a high quality stereo system playing beautiful music, did not wish to own one!  Stereo systems may be impractical for some, and unaffordable for others. Or it may be that headphones better suit their current lifestyle. May be that their living situation is temporary, and any new purchase is just more stuff that needs to moved soon. But again, I have yet to meet anyone who, after listening, did not think that a hi-fi wasn't desirable.

Of course, the hi-fi industry as we've known it Is changing. But even though overall volume is way down, has there ever been a wider selection of great-sounding audio equipment, and at all price points?  Seriously, if a person can't put together a great sounding system at most any reasonable budget, they are just not trying very hard. And what about the availability of music? Internet services can deliver millions of digital albums to an audio system for literally pennies per day!  And for old-timers and young hipsters, the selection of high quality vinyl Is better today than it has been in decades!

As to Naim specifically, well, I've only been on the forum for five years.  And while I miss some of the old-timers who no longer post, I agree with Harry that the forum is much less cliquey, and much more inviting than it used to be. I like that there are many new members, with a rich diversity of opinions. Some think Naim has too many products, others not enough. Some think Naim is not forward-looking enough, while others think Naim is abandoning its traditional core users. Everyone is right, and everyone is wrong. From Naim's (or, from pretty much any business's) perspective, I think the goal is:  love us or hate us, but please don't ignore us!  IMO, it is pretty hard to ignore Naim right now. New technology like Statement and Mu-so give us some strong hints about Naim's future direction for products between those two widely spaced price points. Overall, IMO, it is hard to be overly critical about the steps Naim has taken to re-capitalize, and thereby preserve and evolve their brand. I think it will be fascinating to see how their strategy plays out over the next year or two. For some, this alone may be reason enough for sticking around and posting occasionally. I guess we'll see...

ATB.

Hook

It doesn't help matters. Luckily some of what has gone before is timeless but there aren't many additions to the canon of timelessness at the moment. There were so many real stars before, let me mention Ray Charles, Stevie Wonder and Michael Jackson as examples of genius. Where are their equivalents today? What we have instead are studio-reliant performers who are not fit to tie their shoelaces.

For this, both the record industry and consumers are responsible. Also many of the social changes driving great music before are subdued now. Personally I think the 70's were the golden era of modern music across several genres. For me, this period and the eighties were also the pinnacle for Naim. There were variations and refinement on the theme going into the nineties but the design principles were set.