Is Naim dying?

My 2 cents.

From a business perspective, with the ownership changes in the last 3 years and the introduction of Mu-So, I have my worst fear of Naim becoming another Wadia. Certainly I don't want that to happen, but business is business.

On streaming audio, it's so wrong to say streaming doesn't need tweaking. On the contrary, for a streaming audio system to really sing, the volume of tweaking to be done is at least as many as setting up a good vinyl. I can assure you even if you buy hi-resolution files from reliable sources such as Qobuz, you will get different sounding files using different computers at different working environment to download and process the purchase. It's not a myth. It's a fact.

@Diamondblack,  can you please elaborate on what the fact is you are referring to please. Are you saying if you download the same media content from the Qobuz media online store, that you will receive different media content encoded in the files depending on what computer/OS you used to make the purchase? Sounds a bit far fetched, interesting to see the evidence and will be easy to prove one way or the other. We did something similar when a few of us on this forum shattered the the then prevailing ripper difference myths a few years ago. I still have all the tools so happy to help analyse the files if not done already.

Simon

@Simon,

If you run a checksum validator, it will tell you you get the same file every time you download. But in reality the file you get would sound differently if the downloading environment changes, for example, use a cleaner power supply for the downloading computer, mitigate the noise and jitters in the downloading computer by using better hardware and filters inside the computer and more efficient programming etc.. Try buying one file from a music store and experiment it. People would call me crazy but it's not hard to try this out at a small cost. You would be amazed.

P.S. The same applies to ripping. This is a never-ending argument so I am not going to argue here. I am not a computer/electronics engineer/scientist I cannot offer you and everyone the scientific evidence. I just state what I noticed by repeated experiments at home.

This is taking Audiophile neurosis to a new level. Sometimes you just need to stop, enjoy the music or just get a new hobby... 

Sadly not. Instead we were 5-up in a Fiat Panda hire car on the way back from a concert. 

The apps are at the very heart of the product. At least they are to consumers and if you read the forum that is what people have been complaining about. Furthermore, there are interfaces to construct between apps and on-board software. Finally, it may help to access or maintain indexes differently on the Naim hardware.

Having contractors work in-house is not outsourcing in the usual sense and very different in practice to the outsourcing to which you first referrred to above. What you're saying is you need the right expertise to do the job and nobody would disagree with that as it goes for any job.

This is wrong.

Marky Mark and I don't always agree - but I think we do on this one - diamondblack your assertion can't be taken as a 'fact' unless you can clearly demonstrate it. Otherwise its a feeling or personal belief. What you are saying defies all meaning and common sense - and I am a design engineer that creates systems that do similar things for a living. If what you are saying is so - it will be profound and extremely enlightening and possibly throw much of our current IT infrastructure into global chaos.. still I have an open mind so please can you share your evidence to support your fact please.

Simon

BTW a file checksum even if different does not mean the audio data is different. Some downloads include the purchaser and the date purchased in the metadata. Therefore the file checksum is different but the audio data is separate and untouched.

I quote -

"Martin Colloms and quite a few members of a U.K. based forum where numerous +5V JLH Linear PSUs were constructed by members , say otherwise about the PSUs for Optical writers used for ripping CDs. Martin Colloms even tried different feet on his Naim Unitiserve and reported a small difference in SQ of the rip.
Alex

Moderated post; no links to discussions on other forums in the hifi corner please.  You are free to paraphrase arguments where appropriate.

diamondblack

follow this link

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...803#4945617433585803

We did exactly that - the files were shared amongst forum members and then deleted once analysed.

Some rather long standing respected members listened to the files from various rippers and could detect no difference even on 500 series equipment.

I analysed the files - and the metadata was different - but the WAV PCM data was identical on all apart from one ripper using iTunes on a PC where there was a few mS offset at the start of the rip due to an issue with iTunes.

Simon

PS Qobuz has some free test files you can download

Yes seen all that. Interesting stuff but unfortunately no logical explanation behind it. Ripping I could understand possibly making a difference but not the distribution method. Critic has gone down hill a bit lately - reads more like the Naim Connection magazine these days. 

Could be.

I consider myself a music lover that happens to like fiddling around with gear as well. However if need be I could enjoy music as much on a car radio or smart phone as on a 10K Naim system.

The fact that we see more old stuff being posted in the ''What are you listening to...'' section is a good indicator as are all the reissues. More often than not the new music that I discover is in fact old music that somehow slipped under the radar years ago. Eventually the well will dry up and I'll have to satisfy my thirst with the rare new good albums/artists that are popping up. Nowadays you really need to dig.

I disagree about the lack of quality new music, it is just a case of finding it.

There are a lot of bands, singer/song writers, etc. that are hovering "under the radar".

Obviously depends on your taste, but Bob Harris on BBC R2 is a great source of new music. I also have an independent record shop locally who come up with some great recommendations.

Just ignore the charts and the dross on most UK commercial radio stations.

I can understand listeners having a preferred playback method, but where did you go to get the stats to prove that assertion?

I would say that the integrity is lost in the minds of some people who use cyberspace.

I almost always listen to complete pieces rather than fragments, it's what the composer & artist intended and I respect that.

Half a symphony constitutes a phony!

"yeah.."

(in the style of 'Dirty' Harry Callahan)

Yes, I agree you need to dig deep to find good quality material, mainly stuff you missed from the past to be fair. There is loads of new really high quality production, super recorded, with all the beeps and triangles that sound louder than a kick drum to set the senses going but the material itself (to me) is dross.

As an analogy - It's like having the best car in the world but to only have two bob fuel to put in it.

or to have the best kept secret recipe in the world but only to use mediocre ingredients on hand to use or experience with.

I listen to everything and anything but I keep going back to he old school because it's the material that counts at the end of the day not the quality when push comes to shove.

For all the new dross that is out there, an I Pod is good enough.

That's something I used to do when I was 18. Sitting in the sweet spot with the volume cranked up.  

I nearly always listen to whole albums, unless there is only a little time before needing to do something else. Perhaps I'm just old.

+1

You calling me old?

Not sure, I'm too old to remember. 

I agree.

Well, I completely respect their right to release sets in formats other than the 45minute 'album' format - for most it was an artefact of the vinyl LP format anyway.

Whatever artistic format they chose I'll go with it, provided my system can reproduce it.  An immersive multidimensional laser show may be just a bit beyond the capabilities of a ND5 XS and a Nait XS-2!