Salmond and Darling

I think that you take yourself too seriously.

PM is a wimp he bathes in a wet suit.

What's the problem John, anything that highlights a charity can't be all bad?

Cameron's a gimp.

I think the problem here was not the ice bucket challenge, but Monday evening's "debate", a tetchy, eventually shouty, affair, which proved to be deeply unilluminating. Salmond is a slippery chancer who cares nothing for the future of Scotland (or the UK) while Darling is just a drone.

I can't really see any in the "Yes" camp or their "No" equivalents changing their minds after that one.

Using Trainspotting to judge the Scots seems a little harsh....

Yep, was Irvine Welsh thinking? 

3 weeks to go.

So if you are fortunate to have a vote can you answer the following questions?

Will you have to surrender your UK passport for Scottish one?

Will you have to apply to join EU, Bear in mind UK will have a vote to leave EU next year.?

Will you need a work Visa to work in UK if Scotland leaves EU and has to apply to join.

Will you have to take the Euro as your currency when you join EU as a new country ?

Who will be your bank of last resort ?

Will you have to apply to join NATO ?

How will you replace all the UK Govt jobs in Scotland that will be lost when these jobs move to UK?

How will you resolve the Shetland, Orkney and Western Isles desire for greater autonomy?

Yes you can use Pound as a currency but you surrender control to Westminster if you do. Hardly Independence from Westminster ?

As a Scot I think I am lucky to be here in UK England. However if it looks good in Scotland I may be encouraged to return to the Mother Country .

If the estimated 600 thousand who may be tempted to leave Scotland do then what ?

If there is indeed a Socialist Welfare Utopia in Scotland mass migration to welfare may result from UK. Unless of course we will have to apply for a visa to go to Scotland.

3 weeks to go. Should be fascinating to watch what happens.

regards

BackfromOz,

Cripes, you are putting together a lot better set of organized facts than the "Better Together" campaign.

My Word

Honestly, I think you should take over the No campaign

Apparently some Scots do actually hate the English but I just cannot believe the majority do.

I now think they may vote Yes which may have very serious consequences in the rest of Europe ; it will spur the Catalans on and encourage part of Northern Italy to rejoin Austria , because they, like the rest of the Italians have grown tired of Italian politics strangling (literally) Italian society.

While this is going on the rest of the EU, including Germany, is absolutely against the UK leaving the EU. Why? Because the UK is the only state capable of standing up against the Germans.

And I don't mean that in a nasty way. I have a lot of German friends who agree with me on this.

S

BackfromOz

Just out of interest as a Scot who "is lucky to be here in England", why do do you refer to "you" in all your questions you ask about the future?

Kevin-W

Salmond is a slippery chancer who cares nothing for the future of Scotland (or the UK) while Darling is just a drone.

You are 50% right - Darling is just a drone.

Slàinte

Jim

I'm astonished how much vitriol there has been on this subject in the press and on social media.  In my view it is for the Scottish people to decide where they want to be in future taking into account all the pros and cons. I was in Scotland over the weekend to watch Fish in Haddington and there was a much more sensible debate taking place. I certainly saw no negative response to my northern English accent and everyone I met, without exception was really friendly and helpful. Whichever course of action our Scottish friend choose to take I wish them well. Any chance of independence for the nw of England too please?

And ultimately the Germans will wear us down economically, till we become as poor as Greece.

We are better off facing outwards and abandoning the Germans and so forth than be run by ... Germany.

Those who do not want this European distopia can join England, Wales and Northern Ireland in EFTA with countries like Norway. I assume Scotland will vote to leave the Union, and France will support their old ally to gain access to a German dominated Europe!

Okay. Don't take it seriously. Scotland may or may not elect to leave the Union, and I think it would be fair that England, Wales and Northern Ireland should also take part in the vote. as surely a divorce is between two, and both should take part in the decision! Okay. I know that would never happen.

Thirdly, If the parts of the UK still in Union vote to leave th EU, consider that our main problem would then be the USA rather than Germany. Some may think that the USA is considerably nicer than Germany. I disagree. After all though the Germans tried to destroy us for six years till 1945, the US tried to bankrupt us in 1945/6 by firstly offering punitive rates to loans we needed desperately after six years of War, and having waited more than two years for the US to join in, and then only after Hitler declared War on the US after Japan attacked Pearl Habour. And then she takes ages to implement the start of it. It took Churchill, then in opposition to work his best charms on the US ruling elite to get things moving.

To be honest, I'd rather the rump of the UK worked with Germany as number one local power and country than be stuck with the USA, which nation would happily make the skin of its mother a drum if it could be used to sound its own praise,

ATB from George

The slippery Salmond is interested in power for the SNP, not "freedom" (presumably from the tyranny of Westminster) for the Scots. However, if "independence" is what the Scots desire, then so be it. 

If Scotland wants Independence then Salmond has brought about the chance.

If Scotland actually wants independence, they can always ditch Salmond later ...

ATB from George

One of the joys of the Glasgow Commonwealth games was looking at all the countries around the world that are about to move forward economically.

Looking at parts of Europe and looking at the Commonwealth I am convinced that the UK future may be rosier with the Commonwealth than within the EU.

yes we may have treated many not so well, but today they are still our friends and would benefit from closer ties to us as we would from them.

I used You to represent the Scottish voter, and also a reference to myself , a Scot who does not have the vote as I live in England.

But Salmond wants the pound, Monarchy, Nato , EU , and Bank Of England . This is Devo Max, not independence. Devo Max has been offered to the Scots, but Mr Salmond has chosen to go for Independence from UK.

But only 3 weeks to go and the polls still suggest NO will win. But the Vots in last election showed SNP behind , but they got in with a majority. So it is all still to play for.

David

I can't believe nobody's pointed out to the Scots that they won't be receiving revenue from 90% of the UK's current oil reserves. The oil reserves off Scotland's coast doesn't belong to them, they belong to the UK. If they vote for independence their share will be decided through negotiations the the UK government.

"I can't believe nobody's pointed out to the Scots that they won't be receiving revenue from 90% of the UK's current oil reserves."

Oh no, really?

G

I expect that Scotland will own most of what remains in the British sector of the North Sea Oil Field than England with Wales and Northern Ireland. 

Norway owns more than any other party ...

ATB from George

If Scotland does leaves the union, I am looking forward to see what  the rest of our country will be called. It will clearly not be the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland anymore.. Not least the land mass of Great Britain will be split and the Kingdom will be divided.. . Perhaps  we will be rebranded KEWNI ( Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland) !

Having just returned from a brilliant few days on Skye I was reminded of how I love Scotland and the friendly nature of the Scots. If Scotland does become independent, I'm sure this will remain the same. Having said that I I hope the union remains. I can't believe that in three weeks Scotland may well be an independent country.

But I really hope for Scottish indenpedence, just as Norway became independent of Denmark and Sweden 110 years ago, and first recognised as a free Nation by London within twenty four hours.

I think Scotland will do just fine as a free spirited and independent nation,

This will not affect the attitude of normal Scottish people negatively, but give a challenge that they can meet!

They may even like the English more once they feel the yoke of Westminster is lifted. I suspect that they can have a Scottish Pound that will shadow Sterling like the Danish Krone shadows the Euro without any particular problem.

The Norwegian Krone is to this day legal tender in practice in Denmark and Sweden, because it is slightly more valuable, and so conversion costs the traders nothing from expected profit.

There is always a compromise. and if the Scottish divorce allows us the questioning of Trident, then all the better for it ...

ATB from George

This is interesting - I was working with a Scottish colleague yesterday and he reminded me that many  Shetlands islanders want independence - from Scotland as well as England..

So where might this stop - perhaps we will revert to a system of city states as in feudal times? interesting times.

BTW - he was a long time socialist and was still undecided - interesting he found the current SNP a bit of a turn off.. despite its socialist roots - i think it was more a case of personalities...

Steven,

I can't believe that in three weeks Scotland may well be an independent country.

It won't be even if we do vote yes - that simpy starts the process.  Scottish Independence Day has been set as March 24th 2016 to allow for some 18 months of negotiation on the various splits.

Fatcat

I can't believe nobody's pointed out to the Scots that they won't be receiving revenue from 90% of the UK's current oil reserves. The oil reserves off Scotland's coast doesn't belong to them, they belong to the UK. If they vote for independence their share will be decided through negotiations the the UK government. 

Nobody has pointed it out as the international waters are not a subject for negotiation with the rest of the UK - of course we are probably too backward and will have missed that critical point.

George

I think Scotland will do just fine as a free spirited and independent nation

Yes we will/would.  Bumpy for sure but ultimately successful.

Also,

If Scotland actually wants independence, they can always ditch Salmond later 

As you know George, this is not a vote for Salmond, this is a vote for self determination.  Many people don't like big Eck and can't get their head around the fact that is not about him (although he did get us to this point).

It is no way an anti-English vote, in fact I quite like the English - normally medium rare with some nice potatoes and some petit pois with a bit of butter melting over them.

Of course, many have forgotten that we vote Yes in 1979 but had somewhat stupidly agreed to a 40% threshold of the eligible voting population and it failed that test - not surprisingly really.

BackfromOz

But Salmond wants the pound, Monarchy, Nato , EU , and Bank Of England . This is Devo Max, not independence. Devo Max has been offered to the Scots, but Mr Salmond has chosen to go for Independence from UK.

I think you need to review why the "Devo Max" option was taken off the table.  Salmond wanted a third choice on the ballot (Devo Max) but had to negotiate that away (with the UK Government) to get the right to hold a referendum at all.  You can view it here http://www.publications.parlia.../ldconst/62/6203.htm

Interesting few weeks ahead regardless of outcome.

Regards

Jim

Jim

International waters are not relevant. I’m pretty certain but not 100% sure that Scotland wouldn’t be entitled to the oil and gas revenues, even if the oil and gas had been under mainland Scotland.

It is a fact that Scotland’s share of oil and gas revenue will be determined through negotiation with the UK government.

https://fullfact.org/scotland/...h_independence-33696

If agreement can’t be reached through negotiation and the matter was taken to an international court, it would almost certainly not side with Scotland. The last thing they would want to do is condone a resource rich region gaining independence for the purpose of grabbing the resources and wealth it would bring. Think of the consequences of that happening globally.