Streamer / DAC question

Posted by: Will99 on 29 August 2014

Hi,

I'm currently looking to upgrade my source and amp, and am looking (via home demo) at various options to split my funds between streamer and amp.

One option is NDX/282/SCDR/250.2, and someone suggested that adding a Hugo would in their opinion elevate the SQ considerably.

Now I am aware of all the fuss about the Hugo and it is definitely something I'm interested in, but it then occurred to me that I could even forget about the NDX entirely and just put the Hugo in between my existing Sonos Connect and the 282.

Is that worth considering or is the Sonos going to mess things up ? I would expect NDX/Hugo to sound better than Sonos/Hugo but the former costs £4.7k, NDX by itself is £3.3k and the Hugo by itself (added to my existing Sonos) only £1.4k.

So I'm just wondering (as a bit of a newbie) how much the transport and DAC contribute relatively to SQ - saving on the transport may make the whole thing achievable or even free up some cash for Fraim, or maybe even bring a better amp within reach...

Posted on: 29 August 2014 by Will99

The other (obviously more expensive) option was NDS/555,252,SCDR,300 but I couldn't reach that far. However, I might be able to go NDX/Hugo (or Sonos/Hugo if that's not ridiculous !),252,SCDR,300.

Posted on: 29 August 2014 by Steve J

What are you storing your music files on? 

 

Some of us are using a simple MacMini/iTunes/Audirvana into Hugo via USB and storing the music files on a RAID. Total cost about £2500 and it sounds awesome. The MacMini is headless and can be controlled easily via screen sharing with a MacBook or Remote app on the iPad. You could still use the Connect if you wish. 

I think you will be surprised by the quality of a simple set up like this but you could always demo an NDX and see if it makes an improvement. Personally I don't think it is necessary.

 

Good luck.

 

Steve

Posted on: 30 August 2014 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Hi, I think your proposed NDX/282/250.2 system sounds splendid. The NDX is a cracking streamer.. It is ultimately limited by a small lack of  detail and upper clarity that you will get from the NDS or alternate DACs on the back end. 

I think the Hugo is one of the better sounding DACs on the market that I have hear fat the moment.. so I can certainly say it will hugely enhance your Naim system if you later go down that path.

To the point about whether you should use a MS or Apple PC on the front end as opposed to NDX if you use a Hugo.. I guess that depends very much on personal preference. I personally don't like computers permanently connected to my audio equipment.. They are unsightly and untidy and tend to whir.. So I like the simplicity of the NDX...

i guess it might be worth waiting to see the new software/firmware in September to see how well Qobuz and Spotify integrate into the NDX.. Qobuz has been a real game changer.. Can't wait for  Naim integration.. And if not forthcoming that might be the argument to go PC as opposed to NDX.

Simon

 

PS every DAC I have heard benefits from having a very stable, low noise digital source..the NDX in digital source mode as opposed to DAC mode ticks the box here.

Posted on: 30 August 2014 by Will99
Originally Posted by Steve J:

What are you storing your music files on? 

 

Some of us are using a simple MacMini/iTunes/Audirvana into Hugo via USB and storing the music files on a RAID. Total cost about £2500 and it sounds awesome. The MacMini is headless and can be controlled easily via screen sharing with a MacBook or Remote app on the iPad. You could still use the Connect if you wish. 

I think you will be surprised by the quality of a simple set up like this but you could always demo an NDX and see if it makes an improvement. Personally I don't think it is necessary.

 

Good luck.

 

Steve

My music files are FLAC on a NAS wired to my Sonos Connect, and I use the Sonos app on iPad or phone to control. 

When you suggest I could still use my Sonos Connect, is that in conjunction with the MacMini/iTunes/Audirvana or instead of it ? Obviously unless there are clear benefits I would prefer to just buy a Hugo instead of Hugo + MacMini + Audirvana (to be honest I don't even know what Audirvana is - I.e. hardware or software).

 

 

Posted on: 30 August 2014 by Claus-Thoegersen

With that setup put a dac on the sonos. obvious places to start Ndac, dac v1 or the mighty Hugo that seems to be the dac to end them all?

There are modified/upgraded sonos that might be worth considering also, but still pared with a dac.

Claus

Posted on: 30 August 2014 by Steve J
Originally Posted by Will99:
Originally Posted by Steve J:

What are you storing your music files on? 

 

Some of us are using a simple MacMini/iTunes/Audirvana into Hugo via USB and storing the music files on a RAID. Total cost about £2500 and it sounds awesome. The MacMini is headless and can be controlled easily via screen sharing with a MacBook or Remote app on the iPad. You could still use the Connect if you wish. 

I think you will be surprised by the quality of a simple set up like this but you could always demo an NDX and see if it makes an improvement. Personally I don't think it is necessary.

 

Good luck.

 

Steve

My music files are FLAC on a NAS wired to my Sonos Connect, and I use the Sonos app on iPad or phone to control. 

When you suggest I could still use my Sonos Connect, is that in conjunction with the MacMini/iTunes/Audirvana or instead of it ? Obviously unless there are clear benefits I would prefer to just buy a Hugo instead of Hugo + MacMini + Audirvana (to be honest I don't even know what Audirvana is - I.e. hardware or software).

 

 

Just connect the Hugo. I wasn't sure how you were storing your files etc. Audirvana is a software programme that bypasses a lot of what isn't so good on iTunes but you won't need it with your set up. You can't lose anything just connecting the Hugo. Book a demo and if you want to explore the NDX you still can.

Posted on: 30 August 2014 by GregU

I have a sonos 

 

I generally play music Mac mini...bryston BDA...202...200

 

I've tried putting the sonos dig out to bryston and i think there is a loss is SQ     You could do a W4S modification but I like the Mac mini usb to hugo idea and control with remote ap on iPad or iPhone or screen share with macbook pro who is what I do   Works great

Posted on: 30 August 2014 by GregU
Steve
 
What is "storing files on a RAID?"    How is that different than external hard drive or NAS
 
Originally Posted by Steve J:

What are you storing your music files on? 

 

Some of us are using a simple MacMini/iTunes/Audirvana into Hugo via USB and storing the music files on a RAID. Total cost about £2500 and it sounds awesome. The MacMini is headless and can be controlled easily via screen sharing with a MacBook or Remote app on the iPad. You could still use the Connect if you wish. 

I think you will be surprised by the quality of a simple set up like this but you could always demo an NDX and see if it makes an improvement. Personally I don't think it is necessary.

 

Good luck.

 

Steve

 

Posted on: 30 August 2014 by Steve J

I use a Western Digital 8 Tb twin 4Tb hard drive in mirror RAID mode. It means I get automatic backup from one hard drive to the other.

Posted on: 30 August 2014 by osprey
As pointed out several times in these forums RAID is not actually a back up. It only protects against the hard disk failure. So a proper back up should always be used in addition. Just a note that every one is aware…
Posted on: 30 August 2014 by Steve J

Very true. The drives need to be backed up also.

Posted on: 30 August 2014 by GregU

Thanks   So you are essentially using the WD external hard drive vis usb.

Posted on: 30 August 2014 by Steve J

The WD drive is connected to the MacMini via a Thunderbolt cable and the MM is connected to the Hugo with a micro USB cable.

Posted on: 30 August 2014 by GregU

Is a DAS the same thing as a HD?

Posted on: 30 August 2014 by sharik
Originally Posted by GregU:

Is a DAS the same thing as a HD?

multiple HDs, up to 4 in a chassis.

Posted on: 31 August 2014 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Originally Posted by GregU:

Is a DAS the same thing as a HD?

Hi Greg, DAS stands for digital attached storage and is the term used for storage that is connected to a PC or server without using a network. Typically  it uses USB or increasingly the Thunderbolt type interface.

Where as NAS stands for network attached storage, that is storage attached using a network, typically Ethernet. 

Both methods use hard drives or solid state drives.

Simon

 

Posted on: 31 August 2014 by GregU

I get it.  I think where I live we refer to DASs as external hard drives.

 

 

Posted on: 31 August 2014 by GregU

Mmmmm

 

Ya....Everyone I know would say "I just bought a new solid state external hard drive"    Or probably just solid state drive.   If it's a NAS they would say NAS