Need your opinion. NDX vs. NDS (and each streamer's upgrade path)

Hi, the NDS is Naim's reference streamer. It sounds significantly more involved and detailed than the NDX. The NDX is a great player and cam provide a lot of musical enjoyment, but can't compete with the detail and quality of the NDS. Adding different power supplies won't change this hierarchy.

The NDAC although quite similar design and architecture to the NDS DAC stage sounds quite different. It has a more organic earthy sound compared to the NDS. I preferred the NDAC/555PS to the NDS/555PS but that preference does not appear the predominant view.

My honest suggestion would probably be an NDX with a Hugo.. As I think that trumps the lot..

But this is quite a lot of cash to splash without demoing as at this level the preference becomes subjective and also depends how it will match with the rest of the system and room and so on..

Therefore if you really can't demo, I'd play safe

• If you have the cash NDS/555PS

Otherwise

• NDX and add a Chord Hugo at a later date if you wish

Simon

You put yourself on a risky path if you can't audition something before. Especially as the sound signature of the different audio brands are so different. So also the question comes as to how the combination would work between Naim front end and your existing backend. That being said the NDS is significantly ahead of the NDX - but it requires also the proper amplification to show what it is capable off.

So an advice is difficult as there are many variables, but let me go ahead with an advice:

1. There is a huge value to an auditioning, so I would suggest you still give a prepared auditioning a try.

2. If you can't afford the desired power supply right now - but you can in 12 months then just wait, it would then be a waste of money.

3. I don't know how much Naim sound you get with only the source being Naim - normally the sound is also very much determined by amplification. So I would suggest you potentially consider also a supernait while I don't know if your current amplification is below, on or above your current level of amplification.

4. If you are long term not in the market to let a NDS shine in your future setup you might want to consider the NDX and NDAC combination which can be further improved with power supplies. Or start with a plain NDX and build the next step when you can afford the NDAC with power supply. 

I hope oped this helps you a bit in your considerations.

If you go for the Hugo option, then the NDX is a very expensive route for delivering S/PDIF. I can understand it from an existing system perspective but starting from fresh it's worth considering how you want to feed the system as to whether an NDX is the right route to go (Moon Mind, Aurilic Aries spring to mind as alternatives...)

Hi Simon, First off, thank you for your reply. Secondly, I am a bit confused by your post. On the one hand, you say the NDS is significantly superior to NDX in terms of sound quality and detail. On the other, you enjoy the sound of NDAC and even the combination of Hugo/NDX better than the NDS. If and when you get a chance, I would like to hear more about your opinion (beyond the earthy and organic attributes of NDAC). Thank you.

Well I guess I was trying to reply in the safest way - you see you really should try and hear for yourself. What I prefer is not necessarily what you will prefer. As the NDS/555PS is the Naim reference streamer - the chances are you can't go wrong - but there may be other options that suit you better - and you will only find out by listening for yourself.

Now to your question on the NDAC. My comments are scattered over this forum but I appreciate searching for them is not so easy - so I'll try and summarise. The NDAC/555PS has a rhythmic pace and drive I like. It is not ultra pure and clean - and ultimately appears to lack the detail and resolution of the NDS/555PS but I preferred it - and I sometimes referred to it as more 'analogue' sounding - i.e. less clean and pure but more attractive to my ears... clearly this is subjective..

The Hugo for me bridged the gap between the NDAC and NDS. It had the resolution and clarity of the NDS - but also had some of that texture in the over tones that gave colour and vibrancy I heard often in the NDAC. True the Hugo does not belt the bass out like the NDAC - but perhaps does it more like the NDS in a more balanced way. I wrote quite a summary on this on a thread that we are waiting to be reinstated to the forum.

As far as the NDX being cost effective if you go for the Hugo - I can see the argument for saying that it isn't. My comment would be is that you can start with the NDX and add later if you wish with the Hugo or trade in for NDS if you prefer that style. I know the Hugo sounds a dream with the NDX - but  there are clearly many options  of feeding the Hugo that I am not familiar with.

Should that be:

• If you have the cash Ndx and Hugo immediately 

Otherwise

• NDX and add a Chord Hugo at a later date if you wish

As an alternative, what about ND5XS and Hugo as a slightly less costly option - but still with the benefit of the awesome Chord Hugo. That's what I use and I can't really see the need to change for an NDX. Obviously if I already had an NDX, that would be cool. However, with the Hugo I'm not sure that there is a night and day difference between the NDX and my ND5XS. Others may have a different view, which is absolutely fine 

If you can't audition you're heading for potential dissatisfaction. I would buy what you can audition regardless of brand. 

+100.  Ive never heard the NDS but the Hugo  >> NDX.  The NDS can not retain its  "king of the hill" status much longer.  I'm waiting for NDS2.

Do all of you own and/or have you demoed the Hugo? Is it that good? In that case, the process of my decision making becomes a lot easier (ONLY from the perspective of cost-management). 

Yes I have borrowed an NDS and used with 555PS and 555PSdr, I own an NDX and used to own an NDAC/555PS.

I currently now use the NDX/Hugo.

As an aside I read somewhere that perhaps Naim are working on a Statement source. If this follows the approaches of the Statement amp, we might, assuming its digital, see a bespoke DAC architecture and customised highly capable but  ultra low power DSP architecture and new algorithms with careful regulation and decoupling... This is the sort of approach that created the Hugo.. and there are some new interesting electronic devices to play with now .. So will be interested as always to hear the Naim result.

Simon

I am wondering if  folks are using the 3 ndx digital inputs for selecting sources and then use the Hugo 'passively' in the chain of source- ndx - hugo, or if there is a sonic advantage of feeding other sources directly into the Hugo? (The latter might be little fiddly when switching between sources, and I have heard some complaints about Usability of the Hugo in a hifi system). Of course USB sources other than memory sticks would need to go into the Hugo.

Thanks,

Stefan

Stefan, I do use the NDX to switch SPDIF sources. I haven't really noticed any sound quality difference, but them I have not been critically listening for any.

But it does mean I can effectively use my Naim remote and Nstream to control my Hugo 

Async USB obviously has to go directly into Hugo.. and that means walking over it and pressing a small button a few times. It's possibly inconvenient but you get used to it.

I like Wat might prefer Hugo to be in a slightly larger box with larger and more interfaces.. But I cease thinking about that when using it, and the NDX gives me a fair amount of automation with it.

Simon

Thanks, Simon,

this makes the Hugo quite viable then - I used my nDac in the same way and was surprised that, as the Hugo, it was just quietly sitting in the chain, and, as you say, all control came from the ndx.

Still, surely Chord will be thinking about developing a larger brother to the Hugo, the HuStay?

cheers,

Stefan

So, in this case, essentially, the NDX will become an expensive network streamer with a nifty but partisan nstream interface that is solely made for iwhateva, and a useless internal DAC since Hugo will be replacing it. My question is where does the sweet sound of Naim come into play in this scenario?

Hi Wat, 

I think I know what brand you're speaking of. The main reason I am looking for a network streamer is that I want to eliminate my Mac Mini, Amarra/Audrivana Plus software, my current Arcam irDAC, and the cables in between out of the equation. The idea of just turning on a streamer that is directly connected to my preamp bodes well for me. Truthfully, my dealer keeps raving about dcs and pushing me towards that (and an alternate option to go with the Gryphon DAC). But, both of these products are both beyond my budget and my perception of why would someone spend that much on a piece of hi-end equipment (but then that is just me). Getting back to my original issue, if I want to go with the Hugo, the biggest drawback for me is the lack of XLR as my system is balanced biased. Nevertheless, should I go with the NDX / Hugo setup, then I imagine a Naim PS becomes of no practical significance. Hence, the NDX/Hugo combo falls well within my budget limit. As my speakers are a bit bright, and Naim sounds warm (but not syrupy or colored), I am envisioning a remarkable harmony in my system that yields an open, vibrant, yet warm and inviting sonic nirvana that offers contained highs, a brilliant midrange, and a taut punchy agile bass. The introduction of Hugo however changes the sonic canvas that I have painted on in my head -- whether for better or worse, that I have my reservations about (though it seems to be the common sentiment in this forum that it would be for the better - much better in fact). 

In my personal opinion, you'd be better off going for the Naim sound you fell in love with during the demo and introduce anything that deviates from that later. Having heard various combinations of Naim streamer - as well as the Hugo - I have a preference for the original sound. As I see it, your options are:

- Buy an NDX and enjoy that Naim sound. Add a power supply as needed. If the upgrade bug bites and you've purchased at least an XPS then go NDS down the track.

- Buy an NDS + XPS or 555PS; enjoy the best source that Naim currently manufacture. When the upgrade bug bites, look at another facet of your system. Happily, you'll be in the perfect place to put in Naim pre-power.

- Buy an NDX + nDAC; enjoy a variation on the Naim theme, with perhaps a little more of the "hi-fi" effect. Upgrade-itis? Power supply for the nDAC.

Having heard the Hugo recently in a fairly high-resolution system I can see the appeal but found it wasn't for me. Perhaps we were listening to the wrong music and perhaps I like a different kind of sound but my impression was although it adds detail in the upper frequencies it was at the expense of the rest of the, well, music... No disrespect to Chord, I just feel it's much better as desktop hi-fi than it is as a premium DAC. 

Just my thoughts on the matter, hope it's helpful.

Try the £1000 or so less expensive ND5XS as per my previous post above 

Hi AAH57. I agree with Simon here, I auditioned the ND5XS, NDX and NDS against each other and I felt the NDX was best in the "sound for pound" stakes. Yes, the NDS is better but the difference in sound quality between the ND5XS and the NDX was greater to my ears than the NDX to NDS. That's where I spent my money anyway. Hope this helps, thanks John 

The Chord man I spoke to at the Signals' hi-fi show told me that they were working on the replacement for the QBD76 DAC. To improve on the current model, and build further on the Hugo's technology, is taking some doing & they don't expect anything to emerge until the end of the year.

I have heard the streamers back to back on three occasions. The jump in performance from the ND5 to the NDX is unambiguous. For my tastes the NDX offers the best sound per pound. To me the NDS is worth the difference but it’s a different kind of different. 

Have you heard them back to back into an external dac? Would be interested to know if there s much difference between digital streams from Naim streamers into, say, the Hugo

No. For me there would be no point. If I was going to make my source external DAC centric (considered, tried and rejected for now) I would not be spending out on an ND5, let alone an NDS. I imagine there would be hugely less expensive alternatives.Possibly even a fist full of high capacity USB sticks.

Harry originally posted:

"No. For me there would be no point. If I was going to make my source external DAC centric (considered, tried and rejected for now) I would not be spending out on an ND5, let alone an NDS. I imagine there would be hugely less expensive alternatives.Possibly even a fist full of high capacity USB sticks"

I use an external DAC (the Chord Hugo). However, I do feel that there is value to be had by using it along with a dedicated streamer - I use an ND5XS with my Hugo. I rather like the nSTream app (unlike many here) and find that the convenience provided by the app (playlists etc) coupled with the ease of access to multiple high quality Internet radio stations makes the combination very worth while for me.

I haven't compared the ND5/Hugo combination to the NDX/Hugo combination so can't comment on the possibility of a difference in SQ between the two.       

Excellent point dayjay ... My point exactly. To my knowledge, the differences (although not night and day) between ND5XS and NDX will be lost when you consider the use of the external DAC.

People seem to forget that Naim produced a fantastic streamer with the ND5XS and if it's only being used for the streaming element with Hugo doing it's fantastic magic as an external DAC, then it's pretty pointless spending £1000 more for the NDX considering that you won't be using it's potentially better (compared to ND5XS) internal DAC ....... But if you had a NDX already, obviously you wouldn't need to worry about anything at all. What we are talking about here is starting from scratch and it seems pointless to invest in NDX if you're going to use Hugo from day 1. Others obviously seem to have a different view, which is fine and I fully respect their opinion. 

For me i have to say adding the Hugo to my NDX didn't change its sound per say it just made everything so much better. And i mean everything.

I do think that the NDX does add to the sound quality, as i have tried feeding Hugo from my blu ray player and a netbook running jriver and much prefer the SQ from the NDX into Hugo.

However it does seem a lot of money tied up in the NDX, so i am looking at getting a demo of the Auralic Aries to see how that sounds into the Hugo.

Graeme