Unitiserve-Hugo-Superuniti trial

A/B comparisons are difficult, as it is all too easy to focus (unconciously) on a different aspect of the music. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard something new in the "B" only to go back to "A" and realize it was there all along.

A/Bs can work when there is a large quality difference between components, but at the level you'll be comparing, the differences can be harder to reliably identify.

A better approach, IME, is to keep the listening blind, but listen over a long period, with intervals away from the music, to refresh your ear-brain. See if you can reliably identify whether it was A or B that was playing. Also, pay close attention to your reactions to music, especially those of Mrs KC. My better half's reactions to music playback are unerringly accurate, as she has no interest in the technical side of the hobby. When she reaches for the iPad to run nStream or nServe, it's a good sign.

In the same vein, do something else while the music is playing, and see how hard or easy it is to do that something else. When the music stops you in your tracks, you have a winner. If both stop you in your tracks, well... pick the one that does it more often.

Jan

such a true statement Jan. This has caught me out so many time.

Graeme 

I just traded a SU in for a Supernait 2 and tested the Hugo on both. My feeling was a more noticeable improvement going from SU to Supernait than SU internal DAC to Hugo. SN2 with Hugo was noticeably better than SU with Hugo. SU was not noticeably better with Hugo. An advantage with SN2 is that you can engage 'av bypass' to get a more transparent Hugo.

I will get a Supernait 2 for home demo this Saturday. Dealer will also give me his Flatcap, but this will
be not my main focus. I currently have Uniti2 with Hugo and am thinking about trading in the Uniti2.
I already noticed a big step forward running the Hugo with the Uniti2 compared to Uniti2 itself
I want to compare SN2/Hugo with Uniti2/Hugo. Let's see...

Having lived with the Hugo for the last 5 days, I am better able to comments on its merits or otherwise. The disclaimers are that these are impressions gained with my ears in my system in my room. Also, of course, Mrs KC has given me her feedback as well.

Firstly, and perhaps predictably, neither of us could tell whether or not the Hugo was being used in single blind A/B comparisons. We each listened to 6 different tracks and each of our success rates was 50%.

2ndly the same applied for prolonged single blind listening over whole albums. We were unable to tell if the Hugo was in the loop or not.

as Jan-Erik and Wat have commented, the merits of the Hugo may become more apparant over weeks. However, I am a. unable to do so as it has to be returned, and b. the  differences are so small I don't think it would be worthwhile.

All I can really say is:

1. The Hugo DAC is no worse than the DAC  in the SU. ie both are very good indeed.

2 . The Hugo does not reduce the Naim qualities in my system. Timing and pleasure of listening were retained with the Hugo in the loop.

3. In my experience  the basic Unitiserve- Superuniti system is very good indeed, and fellow  owners of this system need not feel they are missing out on anything if they are Hugoless.

Given the $3000NZ cost of the Hugo, in my system and to my ears,it is not a cost effective upgrade. The price of a good 2nd hand NAP 250.2 would not be much more than the Hugo, and if looking to upgrade my system, that may be better value for money. Having said that, I have not heard the SU/250.2 combination .

Lastly many thanks to Mrs KC who was dragooned into this trial. She was a model of patience despite thinking this exercise in " counting angels on the head of a pin" was a " bit of a wank"! 

Interesting findings. I'm sure theres a lot of people here who will find your views off pace with most experiences but as such still  adding to the already rich comments on this little box of tricks. Thanks for sharing.

Absolutely, this as always underpins the value of auditiong with your own system, room and ears.

it may be if the OP upgrades his system at sometime in the future he might hear the benefits of a Hugo or other DAC.. But at present the benefits the Hugo brings doesn't resonate or is hidden by his current system..

its all about the individual.

I know about the herd mentality, and it can be persuading or even intimidating (the fact the initial multi page thread on the Hugo has been deleted is testament to that!!).. I was one of the few going against the herd with the Hugo in the early days and before all the reviews. You only had your ears to rely on.

Simon

Kiwi this is consistent with my earlier post when I said the SU was not noticeably better with Hugo. However, I did notice an improvement going from SU to SN2 using Hugo.

I have no idea whether the Hugo is better than the SuperUniti DAC or not. I suspect that the analogue input into the SU is masking any difference : when I got my SU last year I ran my then CDS2 into it and was underwhelmed, whereas the streamed signal from the UnitiServe sounds really excellent and I'm convinced better than the results I obtained from the CDS2.

The best thing about all this is that the US/SU combination has been found to work perfectly well just as it is.

There is for certain a herd mentality - if you are told it's better you are conditioned before any objective listening takes place. 

I tried the Cinnamon cables after dismissing another member's positive views of the Vodka, on principle and without evidence. Realising the foolishness of this, I tried the Cinnamon and found it preferable to standard cables, and since then a few others have tried them. If it's a herd, it's a very small one - a herdette. I still maintain that anyone using a US/SU should try them. Unlike the Hugo, it will make a difference, and for a twetieth of the cost. Baa.

Heard and not herd.

G

Hungryhalibut originally posted:

T"here is for certain a herd mentality - if you are told it's better you are conditioned before any objective listening takes place". 

and

"Unlike the Hugo, it (Cinnamon cables) will make a difference, and for a twentieth of the cost. Baa".

Well, as a member of this group for some time (and the Linn forums as well), if I was prone to overt influence by a herd mentality, then I guess would be using the following system:

Linn LP12 turntable

NDS/555 or nDac/555

Naim Audio Pre/Power amplifiers

Cinnamon Cabling

I don't use any of the above.

However, I have auditioned the Hugo and found it to add considerably to the sound quality of the ND5XS.  I have on numerous occasions auditioned various digital cables (both phono and Ethernet) and I have yet to hear a significant difference (let alone improvement) from any of them. I assume by the way that 'Cinnamon' cables are digital cables of some description. If they are analogue cables, then I retract my comments - I have heard significant differences that can be attributed to analogue interconnects and speaker cables.

So - which one of us is prone to the influence of a herd mentality?

Many thanks for going to the trouble of reporting your findings Kiwi cat.

I am wondering if there is a way of upgrading one of my Qutes to usurp the SuperUniti whilst retaining all other control features, maybe this?

UnitiQute - (some digital cable) - Hugo - (some analogue cable) - NAP 200 or 250.2

could get a lift in SQ. I'm told the two power amps have quite different signatures and I haven't a clue what would constitute a suitable interconnect to/from the Hugo, so there would be room to 'play' with presentation. I don't need to play loud.

Thanks for everyone's interesting replies.

It would seem that for various reasons mentioned by Simon, HH and Halloween man that the Superuniti may not the best piece of equipment to best discriminate the qualities of the Hugo. I suspect this is because the Naim boffins have tuned the Superuniti to optimise its DACs virtues. An analogy may be the NASA moon programme (drawing a long bow here), in that the computers required to get the Apollo 11 to the moon and back were exponentially more primitive than the computers that we have in our smartphones, but this old technology was sufficient for purpose at the time.

In terms of cabling I tend to go with what the local naim dealer recommends. The various Cinnamons, Vodkas, Chinchillas, Hamsters, Cloves and Gins and Saffrons make my eyes glaze over.

Haflers thoughts on using the Qute-Hugo-Nap 200/250.2 sound interesting. Would be interesting to hear how that goes. Likewise the Supernait/Hugo AV bypass experiment. However I am committed to my beloved SU as it is for me "sufficient for purpose" and only 7 months old!

As for herd mentalities, we don't have those hear in New Zealand. We what have here is a 'flock' mentality. Bye baaaaa!

Well, the only thing to do to upgrade the system is to get some more music. 

Yep, Never bought more. Thank God for hard drives.

Yep, Never bought more. Thank God for hard drives!

PS may try the Cinnamons some time, but recently bought Chord C-stream cables. Thanks for the advice.

All the best.

I have been reading this with great interest.

Due to the excitement on this forum about the Hugo where apparently it is equal or better than NDS, I have been thinking of buying one.

Until I read this thread 

Now confused. So the Hugo is better or equal to NDS, but one cannot hear differences from the Superuiti internal DAC.

So source first doesn't apply anymore?

Confused. Too bad I can't hear the Hugo for myself where I live.

I cannot hear the Hugo either, unless I buy it without hearing it. The posts by Simon-in-Suffolk and HungryHalibut most likely hit the nail on the head. Analogue input on the SU might be 'masking' the benefits or the power stage might not be resolving enough to get the capabilities of the DAC communicated to the speakers. Either way the addition of Hugo seems to be a non-starter in that set-up, which is why I thought that a Naim streaming 'head'  and power amp. with Hugo in the middle might be another interesting option to investigate.

HH - you must be tired or something - you missed the opportunity to mention the unmentionable power supply for the US!

What this thread seems to be telling me is to focus my upgrade dollars 1st on my vinyl source, and wait for some of the dust to settle with regards to this DAC business :-)

whatever you do if you love and are satisfied with your superuniti (as I was) - don’t audition a supernait 2!