The Mu-so has landed

If you are using uPnP it most likely means you will also have some hi res files on your NAS/hard drive. In that case wireless transmission will not allow you to play those files at full resolution.

The user experience for TIDAL is key to its operation (though itself, is not perfect, but what ever is?); the integration agreement likely covers all of the overhead required to insure a seamless experience between the native app (in my case, streamed via AirPlay) and a device-integrated application, which would require a fair bit of qualification as regards user controls, metadata, etc. before a product / app was released to the market. Profit sharing should also likely come into play.

In the end, it will likely be worth it iff the existing APIs for WiMP and TIDAL can converge to insure that manufacturers are not spending all of their time supporting dev efforts for a limited market (TIDAL is still UK/ US only, as far as I am aware). Most cases will be accommodated through streaming OEM providers of hardware modules and software stacks (e.g., StreamUnlimited).

The other alternative is a bang-up AirPlay implementation that has low latency, low jitter and fantastic sound, which would allow for any app (including Pandora, which to me still sounds better at low res than TIDAL at low res in the car) to make good use of the digital signal path. With hi-res iTunes offerings coming down the pike, I know few manufacturers that are willing to spring for that on their own efforts / nickel.

I decided to check everything out before replying to your suggestion. I have had the Muso connected to the television by Toslink and the Sky receiver connected to the TV via HDMI and this gives plenty of variable latency. I have just connected the Sky Receiver to the Muso via the Toslink and given it a quick shakedown, and I mean quick! I have tried ordinary channels i.e. HD etc as well as recordings I have made and it seems to work very well with little or no latency. Switching everything on and off is a bit of a  PIA as I need to switch off the receiver and the television individually but that is no worse than my main AV setup, - just have to reeducate the wife again, always a joy! Oh, and the music is as good as ever. Unless I have misinterpreted you, the opposite to your suggestion but am glad you pointed out the alternative, so thanks. 

Sod the wired connection, just make sure the wifi is reasonably solid and fast. Whether playing from the SSD on my MacBook Air or from the iCloud the SQ output is wonderful and the worst thing I can say about the Muso is that it highlights poor production but adds value to good recordings. Why mess up a one box solution with hideous wires? Just listening to Jack Bruce from a 1969 recording and it sounds almost muffled compared to a Passenger recording from last year, which is much more open, transparent and clear. Similarly, a Ralph McTell recording from 1972 is fantastic with superb detail. Guess the old adage of Garbage In Garbage Out still holds even if my taste in music might be questionable

 the wired connection is more reliable, if you can connect via cable its always the best route, in fact cabling as mush as possible is best, leaving Wi-Fi as un-burdened for control devices as possible. Phil has just re-networked my whole place removing as many wifi devices as possible and using a switch when required for multiple boxes. I have taken around 10 devices off my wifi network and moved to a switch in various locations, my router just sighed with relief 

I have a switch in my main AV room which contains wired connections for my television, receiver, DVD player, Apple TV, Sky Box, my Synology NAS, and the router itself. Plenty of wifi horsepower left for my Muso, MacBook Air, PC, iPhone, HP Printer, B&W A7 and, of course, the burglar alarm. I also use a WiFi extender for upstairs

Perhaps I've got a tin ear but I've just tried a wired connection playing uPnP of a 24/192 album (Modern Cool, Patricia Barber) vs. the same played via wireless & Apple Airplay, and there really is very little difference, certainly not one to get excited about anyway.

The wireless is more convenient for sure, but I'll put in a proper ethernet cable so I've got the choice. It's draped over the floor at the moment! I've been fiddling with Powerline plugs recently but I'm rather wary because I understand they can screw up the sound on my main system. I'll have to have a proper listen tomorrow.

I would suggest that if the Muso could not reassemble the bits and bytes coherently you would soon know and be telling us. Am no physicist but theoretically if you were using Powerlines etc. with cables, wouldn't there be as much chance for interference as the airborne packages? Or, as they are packages, is there no difference at all once disassembled by the Muso? Or am I a heretic?

I think that just goes to show that it's all rather device dependant, which is to say some devices have more latency than others. I normally experiment.

I can't see the trend towards wireless stopping any time soon. I heard a guy on radio 4 a few weeks ago explaining that you can put a wifi module into a light bulb for about 30p, so you can use an iphone app to turn it on and off. Don't tell your router!

Unfortunately there will come a time (I've seen a number of situations where this has already happened) when your domestic WiFi reaches saturation - it does get portrayed as being the no-downsides solution but WiFi by design is inherently flawed in real world scenarios.

I spent a little time and effort rationalising Paul's network - dropped in some ProSafe Gigabit switches to give a solid wired infrastructure, popped in three Ubiquiti Unifi access points around the place off that so that he has consistent WiFi across his house for portable devices and hard wired all of his fixed devices (except his Qute in his kitchen which we can't get a network cable to without a lot of hassle) and his network seems nice and stable...

...wish the same could be said of his Internet access! :hehe:

Phil

Now just about syncing correctly  at +180ms. Oh dear! I told you it was initially a quick test.

I spent a little time and effort rationalising Paul's network - dropped in some ProSafe Gigabit switches to give a solid wired infrastructure, popped in three Ubiquiti Unifi access points around the place off that so that he has consistent WiFi across his house for portable devices and hard wired all of his fixed devices (except his Qute in his kitchen which we can't get a network cable to without a lot of hassle) and his network seems nice and stable...

...wish the same could be said of his Internet access! :hehe:

Phil

Aaaaargh! This post appears as an illegible blur on my screen, can anyone else read it?!

Yes, it appears as garbage until you post a reply! The Muso appears to have opened, to me, a very surprising can of worms around WiFi. My Muso is situated above a Sky+ Box both of which are connected via WiFi to the router next door. The Sky+ Box downloads HD films recordings etc via WiFi while My A7 is situated in the Conservatory and is also connected via WiFi to the router 2 rooms away. This is basically the setup I have had for years, but obviously with no Muso, and has worked very well for me ie stable and consistent, no dropouts. I currently have a Sky 40mbps internet connection, which replaced a 140 Mbps Virgin offering, which I changed purely for the overall package deal. No noticeable deterioration in performance as I am not an 'industrial' user.

Whereas the music coming out of the Muso is better than my A7, the A7 has caused much less hassle straight from the box but I am just using it for music. I did run a few CD tracks from my Synology NAS but I don't like the interface (it got confused between the Muso and A7) and just annoyingly caused the Muso to disappear from the network from my iPad, whereas the A7 hung in there satisfactorily. Anyway, the NAS obviously played CDs reasonably happily on the Muso via WiFi, but in reality I just use the NAS for backup because I cba with it. Am currently running UPnP from God knows where at AAC 44.1 kHz at between 289 and 304 kbps according to the Muso. I say God knows where because that is what the Muso presents to me from its scan of my available music. Still sounds much the same to me wherever it is coming from.

I'll try again and see what happens!

I give up! If you're that desperate to read it, click on 'Post Reply', and it's legible.

Which Unifi AP's did you go with Phil? I've been very happy with the AP and PRO units but the AC access points have been problematic for me. 

I usually use the PRO's...

Phil

I wonder if we are close to the point where it's realistic to start thinking about replacing copper with fibre in the home. I've noticed that while no single device is saturating a gigabit connection, in aggregate they are and bottlenecks are appearing.

In our situation we have conduits buried in reinforced concrete with CAT 5E. While more costly, fibre would be a lot easier to install than CAT 6A or 8 due to the ammount of space it takes up.

Really?! What are you doing with your network?

I'm no expert, but that sounds like overkill to me! Even Gigabit, never mind fibre. My overly simplistic way of looking at it is that a gigabit is around 2 CDs per second?!

Gigabit is around 70MBytes/sec (real world) so a full CD in about 10 seconds and is overkill for just music streaming but should be fine for just about anything that you're going to hit in domestic use.

I'm a bit surprised if anyone is hitting bandwidth limitations regularly on Gigabit in normal use ... the only times I start hitting issues with Gigabit is when I'm copying large ISO images around.

Cheers

Phil

In our case it comes down to 3 things:

- Total number of devices. Our home is pretty connected, laundry room, heating, lighting, blinds, bathroom scales! etc. We also have a number of sensors for things like moisture and movement. As a result we have more than 200 connected devices.  They are not all online 24/7 but it adds to the general chatter on the network.

- Some of our cabling is on the limit of the ideal operating window for CAT 5E, as a result when the network is busy we see an increase in collisions.

- Network backups, specifically Time Machine. 

Music is no problem, but for example streaming a Blu-ray rip on an already busy network with multiple users, who may be streaming their own content, and you can run in to issues even with Gigabit.