Is there a Statesman in British Politics ?

Posted by: Don Atkinson on 24 October 2014

Listening today to Cameron's childish tirade against the EU's invoice for £1.7bn, left me wondering if we actually have any Statesmen (or women) in British politics.

 

I couldn't think of a single one. Any recommendations ?

Posted on: 24 October 2014 by Don Atkinson

I should have added that I am talking about today's politicians or people who might be elected next May and be appointed Prime minister or placed into Cabinet Minister positions for the next term.

 

Not historical figures.

Posted on: 24 October 2014 by George J

Boris [oh my goodness, no] Johnson.

Nigel [scares the proverbial out of me] Farage.

Miliband ...

 

No, there are no Statesmen left, though I do wonder is Europe as a whole wants the UK out as much as Mr Farage does.

 

ATB from George

Posted on: 24 October 2014 by JamieWednesday

I always quite liked Paddy Ashdown. Is he still about? (Course he is, in The Lords)

 

Jim Hacker?

 

Seb Coe is about the closest I can think of as someone who comes across as a decent sort who 'gets things done...'

 

Theresa May? (I worry about putting a question mark after her name...'Theresa may what?' immediately springs to mind)

 

Michael Portillo when he's talking about trains.

 

David Milliband?

Posted on: 24 October 2014 by Steve J

Seb Coe is an arrogant pr**k. I shared a table with him at a charity dinner and he's so far up his own arse you wouldn't believe. 

Posted on: 24 October 2014 by JamieWednesday

Oh well, I'll cross him off the list then. I always preferred Steve Cram anyway. Unless he molests baby lambs or something.

Posted on: 24 October 2014 by JamieWednesday

 

Shame he's dead.

Posted on: 24 October 2014 by dave4jazz

 

 Shame he's no longer with us as well.

Posted on: 24 October 2014 by Quad 33
Originally Posted by Steve J:

Seb Coe is an arrogant pr**k. I shared a table with him at a charity dinner and he's so far up his own arse you wouldn't believe. 

Nice one Steve 

Posted on: 25 October 2014 by Don Atkinson
Originally Posted by Char Wallah:

 

We should round off this 1.7 billion to 2, as a token gesture to the E.U. and the rest of the world to show them how good we are.

Top man, great idea.

Posted on: 25 October 2014 by MDS

I think Ken Clark has statesman-like qualities. His refusal to bend his views to suit the right-wing and Euro-phobe parts of the Conservative party illustrates this. Regardless of popularity, he pursues the policies that he thinks are right for the UK. Probably the reason he was never selected as party leader.  

 

 

Posted on: 25 October 2014 by Reginald Halliday

William Hague isn't too bad. Oh and Dennis Skinner of course.

Posted on: 25 October 2014 by Don Atkinson
Originally Posted by MDS:

I think Ken Clark has statesman-like qualities. His refusal to bend his views to suit the right-wing and Euro-phobe parts of the Conservative party illustrates this. Regardless of popularity, he pursues the policies that he thinks are right for the UK. Probably the reason he was never selected as party leader.  

 

 

If only he could get rid of those Hush Puppies.................

And buy a "proper" suit....................

 

And speak more fluently....................

 

And........

 

Perhaps if he were younger, we might be able to work on him and who knows, we might succed ?

Posted on: 25 October 2014 by hungryhalibut
Originally Posted by Don Atkinson:

Listening today to Cameron's childish tirade against the EU's invoice for £1.7bn, left me wondering if we actually have any Statesmen (or women) in British politics.

 

I couldn't think of a single one. Any recommendations ?

Absolutely. Gordon Brown. Top man. Were it not for his efforts on the world stage, the 2008 crisis would have been far worse.

Posted on: 25 October 2014 by Don Atkinson
Originally Posted by George J:

Boris [oh my goodness, no] Johnson.

Nigel [scares the proverbial out of me] Farage.

Miliband ...

 

No, there are no Statesmen left, though I do wonder is Europe as a whole wants the UK out as much as Mr Farage does.

 

ATB from George

Given the gloating tones of the outgoing head of the Commission (at Cameron's posturing over the UK's invoice and European imigration policy), I think you could well be right..

Is it possible that Cameron wants out, and thinks that by refusing to pay the rather trivial £1.7bn bill, we will be kicked out of the "Club" and thus avoid a referendum where the outcome is less certain ?

Posted on: 25 October 2014 by Don Atkinson
Originally Posted by Hungryhalibut:
Originally Posted by Don Atkinson:

Listening today to Cameron's childish tirade against the EU's invoice for £1.7bn, left me wondering if we actually have any Statesmen (or women) in British politics.

 

I couldn't think of a single one. Any recommendations ?

Absolutely. Gordon Brown. Top man. Were it not for his efforts on the world stage, the 2008 crisis would have been far worse.

HH, this the "politics" thread, not the "Best Jokes" thresd.

 

 

Posted on: 25 October 2014 by MDS
Originally Posted by Don Atkinson:
Originally Posted by MDS:

I think Ken Clark has statesman-like qualities. His refusal to bend his views to suit the right-wing and Euro-phobe parts of the Conservative party illustrates this. Regardless of popularity, he pursues the policies that he thinks are right for the UK. Probably the reason he was never selected as party leader.  

 

 

If only he could get rid of those Hush Puppies.................

And buy a "proper" suit....................

 

And speak more fluently....................

 

And........

 

Perhaps if he were younger, we might be able to work on him and who knows, we might succed ?

Yes, Don. I think the "image" also works against KC and I suspect when he was considering leading the party I suspect he was getting lots of advice about having an image-makeover, advice that he has clearly resisted. I can't help but admire him for staying true to himself. 

Posted on: 25 October 2014 by Don Atkinson
Originally Posted by JamieWednesday:

I always quite liked Paddy Ashdown. Is he still about? (Course he is, in The Lords)

 

Jim Hacker?

 

Seb Coe is about the closest I can think of as someone who comes across as a decent sort who 'gets things done...'

 

Theresa May? (I worry about putting a question mark after her name...'Theresa may what?' immediately springs to mind)

 

Michael Portillo when he's talking about trains.

 

David Milliband?

Shows how desparate our problem is when Jim Hacker actually looks like a real contender.........

Posted on: 25 October 2014 by MDS
Originally Posted by Don Atkinson:
Originally Posted by George J:

Boris [oh my goodness, no] Johnson.

Nigel [scares the proverbial out of me] Farage.

Miliband ...

 

No, there are no Statesmen left, though I do wonder is Europe as a whole wants the UK out as much as Mr Farage does.

 

ATB from George

Given the gloating tones of the outgoing head of the Commission (at Cameron's posturing over the UK's invoice and European imigration policy), I think you could well be right..

Is it possible that Cameron wants out, and thinks that by refusing to pay the rather trivial £1.7bn bill, we will be kicked out of the "Club" and thus avoid a referendum where the outcome is less certain ?

No. Cameron was being very careful in his language about 'refusal'. Note he said he wouldn't pay by 1st Dec. That's a heavy qualification leaving him plenty of room to pay the full amount later.  I find it difficult to believe that he wasn't briefed a while back that this issue was brewing.  I also can help feel that his podium-banging speech was somewhat calculated. 

Posted on: 25 October 2014 by Don Atkinson
Originally Posted by MDS:
Originally Posted by Don Atkinson:
Originally Posted by MDS:

I think Ken Clark has statesman-like qualities. His refusal to bend his views to suit the right-wing and Euro-phobe parts of the Conservative party illustrates this. Regardless of popularity, he pursues the policies that he thinks are right for the UK. Probably the reason he was never selected as party leader.  

 

 

If only he could get rid of those Hush Puppies.................

And buy a "proper" suit....................

 

And speak more fluently....................

 

And........

 

Perhaps if he were younger, we might be able to work on him and who knows, we might succed ?

Yes, Don. I think the "image" also works against KC and I suspect when he was considering leading the party I suspect he was getting lots of advice about having an image-makeover, advice that he has clearly resisted. I can't help but admire him for staying true to himself. 

I agree, but.........

 

...........I think we need a person who is true to him/her self AND has the right image.

Posted on: 25 October 2014 by MDS
Originally Posted by Hungryhalibut:
Originally Posted by Don Atkinson:

Listening today to Cameron's childish tirade against the EU's invoice for £1.7bn, left me wondering if we actually have any Statesmen (or women) in British politics.

 

I couldn't think of a single one. Any recommendations ?

Absolutely. Gordon Brown. Top man. Were it not for his efforts on the world stage, the 2008 crisis would have been far worse.

While I'm no fan of GB, I must concede that he handled the financial crisis with statesman-like qualities, as did Alistair Darling

Posted on: 25 October 2014 by hungryhalibut
Originally Posted by MDS:
Originally Posted by Don Atkinson:
Originally Posted by George J:

Boris [oh my goodness, no] Johnson.

Nigel [scares the proverbial out of me] Farage.

Miliband ...

 

No, there are no Statesmen left, though I do wonder is Europe as a whole wants the UK out as much as Mr Farage does.

 

ATB from George

Given the gloating tones of the outgoing head of the Commission (at Cameron's posturing over the UK's invoice and European imigration policy), I think you could well be right..

Is it possible that Cameron wants out, and thinks that by refusing to pay the rather trivial £1.7bn bill, we will be kicked out of the "Club" and thus avoid a referendum where the outcome is less certain ?

No. Cameron was being very careful in his language about 'refusal'. Note he said he wouldn't pay by 1st Dec. That's a heavy qualification leaving him plenty of room to pay the full amount later.  I find it difficult to believe that he wasn't briefed a while back that this issue was brewing.  I also can help feel that his podium-banging speech was somewhat calculated. 

Quite. That's the way the arrangement works - bigger economy, bigger payments. With the might of the Treasury tracking the figures it should hardly be a surprise, and if indeed Cameron was surprised he was clearly not paying attention to the things that matter. Whether the arrangement is a sensible one is a different thing altogether.

Posted on: 25 October 2014 by Don Atkinson
Originally Posted by MDS:
Originally Posted by Don Atkinson:
Originally Posted by George J:

Boris [oh my goodness, no] Johnson.

Nigel [scares the proverbial out of me] Farage.

Miliband ...

 

No, there are no Statesmen left, though I do wonder is Europe as a whole wants the UK out as much as Mr Farage does.

 

ATB from George

Given the gloating tones of the outgoing head of the Commission (at Cameron's posturing over the UK's invoice and European imigration policy), I think you could well be right..

Is it possible that Cameron wants out, and thinks that by refusing to pay the rather trivial £1.7bn bill, we will be kicked out of the "Club" and thus avoid a referendum where the outcome is less certain ?

No. Cameron was being very careful in his language about 'refusal'. Note he said he wouldn't pay by 1st Dec. That's a heavy qualification leaving him plenty of room to pay the full amount later.  I find it difficult to believe that he wasn't briefed a while back that this issue was brewing.  I also can help feel that his podium-banging speech was somewhat calculated. 

Yes, I noted his careful words about 1st December. The last part of my above post was tongue-in-cheek. We will clearly pay the bill, or the revised bill following negotiations. IMHO his speech and performance were calculated to win a few more voters for May's election (the month, not the Home Secretary !) However, given his recent posturing with regard to the EU, he is in danger of alienating EU support. The resulting taunts from EU Commissioners and politicians  might well sway a few voters in any referendum towards the EU Exit door.

I think he's walking a very fine line, assuming he wants the UK to remain part of the EU. For all I know, he might be working to a very careful strategy - but I have my doubts.

Posted on: 25 October 2014 by MDS

I'd agree with that, Don. Given the experience of the Scottish independence referendum where investment seemed to dry up and markets reacted negatively while awaiting the result, I strongly suspect that DC is very much regretting committing to an EU membership referendum.  

 

Regardless of which way the result of referendum goes (and I very much hope that if it does take place the vote goes for staying in), it now seems clear that there will be serious damage done to the UK's economy because of the uncertainty created in the markets and the postponement of investment decisions made in boardrooms.  It won't be long before financial analysts put a price on this impact which might be used by Milliband and Clegg in the election campaign.

 

That, UKip, and the 'English Question' must be giving political strategists all sort of headaches at the moment.  

Posted on: 25 October 2014 by hungryhalibut

The decision whether to remain in Europe is too important to leave to the electorate. Cameron is reckless to put the UK economy in jeopardy simply because he is wetting his pants over UKIP. The 'I'm more racist than you' card is a dangerous one to play, and let's hope it backfires on the upper class prat big time.

Posted on: 25 October 2014 by Steve J
Originally Posted by MDS:

I think Ken Clark has statesman-like qualities. His refusal to bend his views to suit the right-wing and Euro-phobe parts of the Conservative party illustrates this. Regardless of popularity, he pursues the policies that he thinks are right for the UK. Probably the reason he was never selected as party leader.  

 

 

Another I've had dinner with. I met him in the early '80s when my then boss invited me to the Conservative Medical Society. He was introduced to me as Maggie's favourite for future PM. He was very polite company over dinner. Maybe he was just too nice to make it all the way.