Linn announce Tidal integration

It is easy.

I wish that Synology would include the streaming services in their NAS'.

In fact why don't the streaming services write packages themselves......

So naim just push a button and it happens?

Obviously not. However, it is not a lunar landing. More like a walk to the shops.

I think they have new shoes too.

Hi Mark,

I imagine that the issue relating to the integration of third party streaming services into naim network players may not wholly be technical. I don't know for certain but I should imagine that a lot of contractual groundwork has to be covered before a new service such as Qobuz/Tidal or other streaming service providers can be brought on board.

Nope, it appears that its easy to do, anyone can do it virtually overnight.  Makes you wonder why they need all those technical and legal people at Naim 

Perhaps you are right that the complexity is in the contracting. However, I imagine contracting with Spotify works along the lines of...here is our contract, sign it if you want to access our service.

Do they have many of either?

In all seriousness I doubt if they have lots of either.  I would imagine that they have a business plan to deliver and a limited amount of resource to deliver it.  Muso was clearly a significant part of this year's plan and it would be unimaginable that they could have launched it without Spotify hence that addition.  I don't know what else is in their business plan but I doubt it includes dropping their projects everytime a new streaming service comes out, even if that would be appreciated by most on here. If it was quick and simple I would imagine they would already have done it but if it means losing valuable resource what would you prefer that their development people were working on, say, a reference level streamer, for example, or integration of Qobuz, and now Tidal and no doubt in the not too distant future Beats?  I doubt it we can have it all and if push comes to shove I'd rather they focus on new high end products than the froth, as welcome as that froth would be.  The markets seems a little bit volatile anyway at the moment for streaming services in my view to be putting lots of resource into integrating them all unless it can be done as simply as some seem to think

Nothing legal, just some technical implementation naim side only. Spotify as all the latest Web 2.0 services and big startups offers Integration API: anyone can integrate their system. As Dropbox, Deezer and many many others.

The time-to-market of Naim is due to their software and hardware architecture, not the most recent and easy to develop and manage. Think just about the firmware upgrade: they are not able to make it trough network only connection or usb only like all the latest devices we are used to update, you have to download drivers, be connected on both network and usb, something not smooth.

But sincerely... from Naim I want sound quality, not the last geek or feature set. So I'm hoping they will adopt a better software architecture in the near future, more expandible and modern, but I always look at sound quality first.. And they have one of the best sound I know, so I can wait for features. My 2cent.

I was bored yesterday evening, and I (speed) read through the Spotify licencing for third parties... I struggled to find anything onerous/contentious.

There may be some marketing requirements for promotion, but for integrating to the service the licencing terms and conditions looked reasonably straightforward for third parties to connect with Spotify and there are even  integration code examples for a multitude of platforms, unless I missed something of course.

Simon

I don't know enough about their business and resources to comment Allen but one thing I would venture to suggest they should be doing is to publish their roadmap, as far as they can without putting themselves at risk commercially, so that their customers can see what enhancements they intend to introduce and when - yes, things may slip but we're all grown ups and if they communicated early enough we would understand and respect that.  The information would take away a lot of the frustration and would at least show that they are working or planning to work on these things, or that they do not intend to work on them which would at least help people to make long term choices and remove some of the heat from the forum.  It would also stop them havinig to respond to us when we question it on here because at times it must put them in a difficult position to respond without appearing defensive

I would be extremely disappointed if Qobuz  or some other lossless service integration is not due shortly with Naim... It would very much down play and under sell Naim's public network streaming capability.

Agreed. I've just read through the API. Five minutes sufficient to gain an understanding of how it works. Obviously it would take longer to build something suitable for consumer use but you get the picture.

What Naim have done with Muso etc is not just integrate Spotify but create a new platform. This has been their real challenge this year. I suspect you are right that what was in place before is not the easiest to manage.

Finally, I also agree that sound quality is paramount. Those who have bought the Naim streamers have become the most noisy and demanding of consumers (perhaps quite fairly in cases such as Allen) but perhaps that is unfortunate overall in the grander scheme of things.

For example, the 282 and 252 were released 12 years ago. Not saying they aren't good but I think many of us would like to see the form factor of the pre-amps updated. In my case I would much rather see that than what I feel is a very limited lossless service implemented to pacify streamer owners.

If you have a beta or user group it makes absolute sense to me to share your development road map, even if only on changes to existing products, and to use that group to get feedback on your plans and to help develop them.  The feedback loop is really valuable and I've seen it work really well with other technical suppliers in my work life.  In effect its free consultancy and market testing, make everyone sign a non disclosure disclaimer if you feel you need to but make use of what's available and you can be sure that when those developments come in that group of people will be actively selling the change and providiing support to the wider group justs they did with the spotify lanch

if you want the most recent feautures you have to buy other streamers: Linn, Devialet etc.

Current Naim architecture has a huge limit in being competitive with these, festure side. But as said I cannot find the sound of a Naim on a Linn or Devialet.

Obviusly Naim should listen to your voice and replace his architecture with something more modern and ready to compete with all the others. They can easily miss huge market share in the next years if they will not do this. But at the moment I would not change my Naim to have Tidal, Quboz, Deezer, or something like that. Absolutely not. 

I hope they will make a fantastic preamplifier / streamer with a more modern interface in the future so I can keep my amps and just replace the pre, a better Nac b 172 for example. This is the route I think they will have to follow. But I'm not Naim and at the moment I appreciated the effort they make to integrate Spotify and to have made a better iOS streamer app, something that I was missing a lot.

I agree with you they are slow, very slow software side. Dac V1 has a stupid resolution bug since it very first beginning and still, we have not a firmware update available officially. I'm confident they will invest in developers and technooogy. What we are discussing here I'm sure It is something they know very very well..

Allen, soon to be 9 year old Sonos units can operate 27 music services with a further 9 available in the labs mode.

I don't know the internals of Naim but doubt there is much CPU or memory in the old Sonos units. The success of Sonos has in part been grounded on a bedrock of their dedicated wireless network (particularly at first with routers so primitive) and the use of local indexes. The latter choice more influential on the user experience than at first it may seem.

Sonos don't do great amps though! Also, I understand Naim have enabled the direct use of Spotify application to control the music. That is very significant and a great move by Naim. Companies like Sonos and Spotify have a fortune to spend on software so why not take advantage of this? When Spotify goes lossless all these worries will disappear.

I don't disagree with any of this so don't think we're disagreeing at all on this point

I prefer the modular solutions you describe - without the streamer built in. More flexible.

I don't know what the effect of more memory in the Muso may have been. However, I do know more memory is not everything. Personally I doubt the NDS has less memory than the 9 year old Sonos too.

You are quite entitled to make a song and dance! However, I don't recall any commitment to services when the NDS / NDX came out and I do think Naim are making a renewed effort now. You can control replay with the Spotify software on your NDS today. Hence Spotify lossless will cure (almost) everything.

Qobuz is behind Spotify on many levels in my opinion. It is no good having lossless if it is not the track you want! Integrated playlists? Not on different services! Have you compared the mobile apps for music-on-the-go?

Intriguing, it would be good to know the symptoms of this

Jude

Indeed. Please enlighten us.

Dave

Play an high res song (24/352) trough USB (I usually play with Audirvana and INTEGER mode on), then without pressing stop change to a lower 16/44.1 track and you will ear noise/pops pattern continuously. If you go check the DAC V1 usb status on its display (from settings) you will find the underflow counter will increase continuously just after the resolution change. If you want to stop the errors and pops, just press stop to release the audio interface, then play again the lower track without issues. But if you have a playlist with mixed res, when you pass from an high res to a low res track you probably have this annoying issue, this happens at least on my unit. I think it is something connected with the Dac V1 integrated Audiophileo USB interface. 

I haven't played a 384 sample rate file.  However, I do switch tracks from radio and various resolutions up to 192 regularly and have never experienced this issue.  The only issue I had prior to the release of the latest firmware about 15 months ago was a 'I2S underrun' which happened very occasionally.

Jude

This is something happens only with USB, and high to low tracks with a high res player

I think to go with Spotify was only a good decission if they will have lossless streaming soon.

Spotify on Naim is for me absurd. It's more marketing than fidelity.

Hope a Qobuz integration will come.

Especially the streaming service integration demonstrates to me that a DAC with a PC / MAC beside is the best solution due to the flexibility.