Spotify Snobbery

+1. 

It's still not working on my CD5si. Useful though; as is iTunes as a music sampling medium. I use 'em both. It will be interesting to see if the download/streaming giants (good name for a band!) do offer CD quality or better. It would seem to be in the interests of the music production companies not to have to manufacture, store and ship a physical product.

I was with a young person t'other day, not of the audiophile affliction, and she still likes to buy CD's for their tactile nature and versatility, so who knows? Vinyl was supposed to be dead thirty years ago.

A domestic computer is not a high fidelity source component, so the implementation of, and discussion about such a device is largely irrelevant here.

John.

Dear John.

How about I send you a Jurassic Parc dvd as a late Christmas present, it will be as good for you as when I stumbled over a black/white family photo album in the attic digging Christmas decorations out ?!  Best P

Versatility?  What a load of cobblers.  Vinyl will most likely out live CD by a considerable margin, though perhaps not in the mainstream, and for good reason, but the CD is drawing it's last desperate breath and will soon be as dead as the cassette tape.  And good riddance.

Thanks!

G

Where is CD failing for you ??

The space they take up.  The cost getting them delivered,  They are easily damaged.  The method by which the data is read is open to error.  The data storage is finite, and therefore does not offer any possibility of higher sample rates and bit depth.  The mechanical parts of the CD transport are easily the most likely thing to fail in any component hifi component, with the possible exception of a TT, which just needs constant attention.

And I actually used to quite like CDs, but unfortunately their fate will not be dictated by me, or you, and the type of people that post here, the majority of music listeners will settle that, and they couldn't give a bucket of monkey vomit about the finite details of their audio quality, or indeed even hear them.

Actually I think that is somewhat patronising to the many people who do enjoy and appreciate listening to music. Just because they don't listen to music on an expensive hifi doesn't mean they don't appreciate good replay.

Simon

It was not my intention to imply that they don't care at all, but not relative to the passion for outright audio perfection that most posting here display.  I don't think the majority of people will be too worried about the difference between MP3 and CD, or protecting their system from RFI and mains interference etc.  The point is, for the majority good, 320 MP3s for example, is good enough,  And to most people MP3s from an I-pod doc is good enough.  Therefore that's where the majority are headed.

Fair point, however I think versatility is a wonderful thing and we have never had more choice, than we have today. I have been playing cds for 18 years through CDS, CDS3 and CDP555 without having had any failures so far not even scratched my cds. Yes they do take up space, but so do LPs it's all part of the hobby. I think you will find that John is just ripping you a bit ! ATB Peter , back to my cave now and maybe I should even consider becoming an ex smoker 

PS. I have also found great pleasure in finding particularly well recorded cd releases of the music I like 

PPS. I also believe and hope that I will still be able to buy a cd in say 5 years time, but that's just me .....

Yes I know he was ripping, and I couldn't help taking the bate on this occasion.  It's all good, each to their own and all that....but it was cobblers. :-)

Sadly Simon, I think SongStream is correct. What irks me is that ephemeral popular music (together with everything else) used to be recorded by masters of their art who strove to make it sound as good as possible for the end user.

99% of Buddy Holly singles were destined for a Dansette, but we know from good quality digital transfers that the sound committed to the master tape was pretty special.

Ditto; the Beatles. We only have these current very fine sounding reissues because George Martin strove for perfection. Radio stations back in the day simply applied the necessary compression and the audiophile got the real deal. I have some 12" and 7" singles from the 80's which are hitherto unsurpassed for sound quality.

Since around the year 2000, there has been a steady 'lowest common denominator' fall in SQ as it's been optimised to be LOUD for (ghastly digital) radio and to sound exciting on an mp3 player.

The industry will not be troubled by a tiny percentage of audiophiles. We now get ripped off by being offered so called Hi-Res files at a premium price.

Hi-Res sound quality used to come as standard. Not any more.

John.

Happy to supply some cobblers and light the blue touch paper. Those unfortunate enough to know me well know that I like to tease on the subject. I fought against my Luddite tendencies and had 'the electric' and a phone line put in last year. Radical stuff for rural Norfolk!

I love all my Apple i-thingies and even run an iMac into a DAC. Mind you; it sounds crap.

Festering greetings y'all.

John.

And ................

The dependence of the Playstation and X-Box on a network connection has hit the news today. Will North Korea and or Islamic State become clever enough to completely knacker the evil plaything of the Western infidel - the internet?

Hang onto those CD's and LP's folks.

John.

As rural Norfolk's premier resident, I've had the benefit of leccy, phone lines, and 20mb broadband for some considerable time now.  Glad to to hear you're finally catching up.  I remember the days when I had to power my system with and exercise bike and a dynamo, and I would not want to go back there.  Mind you, my physical fitness has deteriorated since the arrival of on tap electricity.  I suppose there is always a price to convenience. 

We will beat the Infidels in the end...............

Absolutely! Just rip them (they'll sound better that way) and store them away somewhere safe...

Yes, rip them as soon as practical.  My CD library was started nearly 32 years ago in 1983.  I had minor problems ripping a few of the old commercial CDs, but some of the home recordings of radio concerts have deteriorated very badly, giving errors that the ripping software is unable to correct.  If you do come across a bad CD, it's worth trying different CD/DVD drives.  One CD that wouldn't play properly in any of the PCs and laptops I tried did play perfectly in my Sony 337ESD, so I was able to do a copy via that.

So, after updating my NDS to the version 4.01 firmware (easier than I thought!), I've been trying Spotify premium on a one week free trial (ends today).

Its been an interesting experience, similar to being a kid in a sweet shop!  After the first couple of days listening to all those albums I had on my Amazon wish list (where I put albums that I'm not sure about, but would like to hear some more of before purchasing), I started to dig into some of the more eclectic stuff.  Actually identified some albums that I wouldn't have otherwise listened to (or ordered) by Leonard Cohen (Live in Dublin), Jungle, Saint Saviour (In the Seams).

In the end though (and the reason that I've now requested my Spotify account is deleted) is that whilst it was interesting to listen to a wider diversity of music, I did realise that the quality issue was removing some of the pleasure.  What I guess I'm trying to say (very inelequantly!) is that initially, the Spotify experience was like being let into an all-you-can eat buffet with great variety but that once you've gorged yourself (scenes of Homer Simpson in a restaurant come to mind!), you realise that the quality isn't great.  Only once I went back to listening to my CD rips and HD music, did I realise what I'd been missing.

So for me, an interesting experience, but not one that I'll be continuing.  If this is a snapshot of the future though, and if it's possible to have both bought and rented streamed HD content, then I'm definitely up for that.  Discovering new albums and other music is a great way to broaden the diversity of my own bought content. As someone of the generation that used to record the Top 20 on a Sunday evening on the radio (to listen to afterwards), discovery and diversity is an important part of the music listening experience - certainly to me it is.

I certainly don't look down my nose at Spotify, and thank them for the 7 day opportunity to trial it, and hope this represents just one part of the journey to an even better place (the optimist in me would like to think!).

I'm also not a streaming 'fan-boy', and continue to sit on the fence over taking out Amazon Prime (LoveFilm) or Netflix subscriptions (largely because of the content).  I also don't have a Kindle (I prefer paper books).  If that ages me, then so be it......

Oh well, sit back and wait for hurling of rocks......

ATB.  George.

John, I can't help feeling I heard this all before when I was getting into hifi in the mid 80s. So I did trawl of some of the hifi articles at the time.. And bingo it was there... How the audio enthusiast was bemoaning that the record industry played to the tone deaf masses using analogue media, and most cared not for the quality of the music, and those big recording industry had been getting away with sloppy practices, that the new digital audiophile, a tiny wealthy minority, would not accept.. But who would take notice?

Look here from circa 1984 and Google out .

http://www.stereophile.com/con...-jgh-responds-part-2

Fascinating, and to me a lovely example of history repeating. One subtle change however is back then there was more focus on digital encoding and recording being a key determinant in the replay chain, where as today the emphasis is mostly on the decode/play out side.

Simon

You'll never make a CD player for less than the cost of a vinyl player..... If vinyl is superseded it will be by the cassette rather than by cd....... Fascinating.

This is outmoded thinking by people who just don't get it. Quality is immaterial and pay per listen is the way forward . Why own a copy of anything when you can repeatedly pay for nothing? It might sound like madness but apparently it's the future.

Simon-In-Suffolk

"Fascinating, and to me a lovely example of history repeating. One subtle change however is back then there was more focus on digital encoding and recording being a key determinant in the replay chain, where as today the emphasis is mostly on the decode/play out side."

i won't pretend to understand your rational about 'today' but my own twopence worth relates, as always, to the quality of the recording. I do believe there was almost a lost age of recording between the '60s and the introduction of CDs as well as greater sophistication of digital recording technology, multi channelling etc.

As the output media have become more affordable, accessible and sophisticated we can tell instantly what is a good or bad recording. Our expensive hardware hopefully enhances the experience. Whether Spotify is actually a better delivery mechanism than Qobuz or Tidal or a ripped CD is down to personal needs or tastes. For me, it delivers an incredible expanse of choice that I can sample and, for example, I have no intention of buying the latest offerings of Pink Floyd or the Eels but I did listen to them closely and did not disappoint myself.by buying a CD. 

I'm very much pro choice, and assume that what other people may want to do doesn't end up being the only practical option for everyone. Should that day ever come with web based streaming subscription services, regardless of quality, we will have successfully built a prison around ourselves. And paid for it.