Old and new Hugo - a question of timing?

It's going to be battery powered again?  Damn it, that is one of the key things that put me off the original Hugo.  I am sure there is evena an argument for this approach in terms of a clean electrical signal, but IME batteries deteriorate over time and need replacing.  Just check how many hours of use you get from a three year old laptop from a full charge vs a brand new one.  I am sure the batteries in a Hugo are made from Kryptonite or something, but it still bothers me.

Mark, I don't know, the only comments I have seen is that they have worked as hard as they can not to compromise the Hugo sound. So perhaps these are required because of the new control electronics and microprocessor in some way so as not to marginalise the sound. There would have been a reason or they wouldn't have bothered. Perhaps the TT will be able to drive larger speakers directly, I know this was rumoured sometime back, but seen no reference. Having large capacitors here would support that. The Hugo could drive speakers directly but they had to be pretty efficient by all accounts.

Simon

There are no current swings of note in control electronics or a microprocessor.

I doubt the Hugo TT is a power amp too. They would have mentioned such a major change before stating it has a remote control.

Perhaps the reason for the larger capacitors is because the analogue section - the 'A' in DAC - is better with this refinement. Maybe it manages timing and transients better?

If so, an embarrassment for those on here who evangelised that this was all perfected in the digital section by longer TAP length filters etc. Large slices of humble pie all round if that is the case.

Possibly we shall find out shortly... No mention of bettering the sound of Hugo yet in the blurb I have seen, but more about ensuring the Hugo sound quality is matched.

BTW CPU can have some quite high/spikey current draws, but agreed these are not usually best served with large electrolytics. 

The press release says the only new audio circuitry is for the balanced outputs... 

So your guess is good as mine. I will no doubt listen to one with an open mind when I get the chance, to see if it can surpass the little gem In some way.

Simon

If you google chord Hugo TT photos you will see what it looks like. Whether there is a black one as well is not clear, but it has to be almost certain.

Nice distraction from the topic. However, you and I both know you may be one of those in line for a slice of humble pie.

So you feel the capacitors are for the balanced outputs?

If I am honest not really, but that is the only audio componentry change, apparently, ... Perhaps it so they can charge more.. But that is perhaps being a bit too cynical.

Well - it appears that I am a "specification chaser" for choosing to buy a Hugo. 

Thanks for for letting me know, Marky. I had absolutely no idea that I am so gullible. But wait a minute - I didn't actually look at the specs, rather I compared the sound of the Hugo vs my original DAC. I am far too thick to pay any attention to specs.

Now, if I had upgraded from my ND5 to an NDX, an NDS or an nDAC, would I have been a "spec chaser"?

What a ridiculous comment? I guess all audiophiles would be considered to fall into this category by most people who are content to live with an MP3 player and a cheap pair of headphones.

i for one have been (and continue to be) delighted with the impact of the Hugo in my system. It's as simple as that for those of us without an axe to grind.

Can't imagine why anyone would feel the need to eat humble pie if or when Chord add another product to their range (at double the price incidentally).  Ridiculous comment.....

I read the blurb about TT to be more about functionality, ease of use & aesthetics -  whilst trying to retain the audio quality of the Hugo. Rather than any sense that the TT is set to surpass it by any meaningful margin.

G

And if it does sound better, so what? My little Hugo will still make me happy with its sound and I'll have a good option for any future upgrade.  My word, we will be wanting Chord to retrofit our current Hugos with their latest developments next, and how ludicrous would that be?

Don't know why you are so concerned about folks who are damaging their hearing with that little matchbox size piece of s..t.  Of course you know much better 

As there is no improvement in SQ compared to the current Hugo I can see no reason to change. What's the point? I think this is a stopgap until Chord can develop a new reference DAC. I'll wait for that, or possibly a new Naim DAC If they can come up with something better.

I would agree that this looks like a stop-gap.

Chord have reportedly shipped 10,000 units so far.  If they made £100 profit per unit which I think was the previous guesstimate on here then thats only £1m profit.  I don't know what the price of the new unit is but would guess that if will be £1,750+.  The additional materials costs are probably fairly small (£50?) but by carrying out this re-packaging they can maybe double or even triple their profit per unit.  And they are totally justified in doing so

BTW, based on the photo on avcat.jp I think it looks hideous - a DAC developed by committee

You may be right. However, double the price for remote and XLR inputs in a bigger case?

We know that inputs are not expensive to add. Past conversations about a mini 252 have led to Naim confirming that reducing the number of inputs makes almost no difference to the cost of production.

In fact, the article states the capacitors were expensive. Which comes back to the original post, what is the purpose of the capacitors? I would venture they're likely supplying the analogue section in either part or totality. As above, they're not really needed for a processor or remote control.

Look at it another way, you could not removing the capacitors which supply a Naim analogue section in CDP, Streamer or Dac and experience the same result. I am sure all might agree this at least.

Maybe the article means the sound is still the Chord sound? It doesn't mention sound quality specifically. You've inferred that is what it means and perhaps you're right. It may simply mean the same 'house sound' though.

It does specifically mention the addition of over 100,000 uF of capacitors though. From memory this is over 3 times the reservoir capacity Naim specify on power amps such as the 250 and 135 or a PSU such as SC or HC. The article states they're expensive capacitors so presumably there is something unique about them versus the standard ones.

Why add this much to the caps in order to supply a remote and small processor? I think there may be more to it. As the articles says, to 'store a vast amount of energy and release it very quickly'. That has to be for the analogue stage. To imagine that won't affect the 'sound' as a result is completely wrong. If it does not affect the sound, why do it?

This may even be the 'reference DAC' for you if it improves the analogue stage. Which, after all, is absolutely vital yet so often overlooked due to the complexity of getting it right. If this is indeed what has been done, I will also be looking to give the Hugo TT a test drive. We shall see.

Hmm, I just read that the TT will be twice the price of the existing Hugo.  I must say I can't really criticise Chord for pushing the price up, though in pure VFM terms the TT is obviously a lot less attractive than the current model.

Or used Hugo sold for those who want to upgrade to the new TT, could be some nice used bargains out there?

I think you may be pleasantly surprised in the near future. Don't quote me on it but at the recent Windsor Hi-Fi show the chap from Chord mentioned that they had 5 new DACs in the pipeline (vaguely mentioning that not all of them would be for 2015 consumption). One of which was to be smaller than the Hugo, one we assume will be reference and we now have the TT. Who knows what else they have up their sleeves. 

Frankly I am a bit disappointed in the initial information leaked on the Hugo TT. If it is true that the aim was to maintain SQ rather than improve it, then double the price of the Hugo does not appeal. But we shall wait and see when the full announcement is made. In the meantime I kinda like the way the Hugo looks on my rack.

'We need longer tap length filters Captain, the DSP cores can't handle it !!'

My interpretation from the release is 'the sound remains the same' infers no change in SQ. If there is no change then I'll wait. I've no need of a desktop unit as the current Hugo works well in the system. A 'reference' unit may be another matter, assuming better SQ. I'll await the reviews when the TT is released. I agree with PhilP that it's not exactly attractive.

No it's amazing you all should sell your old Hugos and get the TT.

Yes, if there's no sonic advantage it would be a bit strange to spend twice the amount for a different-shaped box. But it does seem as though Chord have done other work to improve the analogue side of the Hugo for the TT. A listening test will be in order!

I do know that Chord will be improving the QBD76 HDSD to include the latest FPGA chips (I was told I would be able to get mine upgraded to the latest spec.), then I also imagine they'll do something similar to their digital preamp. Can't imagine what the other two DACs could be, maybe the Chordettes?