Old and new Hugo - a question of timing?

SamS's link seems to have been deleted. The link did give more info. The use of a Type B USB connection makes sense but I wonder what effect the new super capacitors will make as the Hugo TT’s FPGA has “has the same specification and measured performance as its mobile sibling”.  I can't see a dramatic improvement being possible otherwise I think they would have said so in the release. 

Maybe the "super capacitors" will enable the TT to drive larger loads making it a one box solution ? 

Just a thought? 

Peter.

The article is easily searched under Hugo TT.  I think the fact they are calling it a Hugo speaks volumes.

G

I'm really not sure Wat ? You are probably right but i know Rob Watts claimed that the standard Hugo could drive a decent pair of speakers alone . The DAC section of the Hugo also requires very low power hence the original battery. A larger capacitor  able to release power very quickly ? Like i said before it was just a thought ? We'll all know very soon. 

Peter.

You don't see large loads in either a DAC or Pre-Amp. However, it has been part of Naim's philosophy for many years to have a large trafo and caps - which on paper may seem over-specified. The main purpose being to support timing and the delivery of transients. For example:

• Large trafo and caps in XPS to drive CDP and DAC.
• Large trafo and caps in HC and SC to drive pre-amps.

As mentioned above and if I have understood the spec correctly, the TT capacitors appear to have even more capacity than the seemingly over-specified ones Naim uses. It is also not simply another capacity specification chase like megapixels in cameras but also about the quality and matching of components.

If the capacitors are not used on the analogue side I would be interested to learn what purpose they serve. What I can say is I feel it is impossible to maximise all (or even most) of the potential sonic benefit of DAC's from tweaking the digital side alone.

From the most recent blurb:

 the battery has been doubled in size and is now ameliorated by 10,000,000 uF of supercapacitors providing greater power storage potential than the standard capacitors found in the original Hugo. The Hugo TT packs a power supply double act about which Franks says, “We use them (supercapacitors) in the same way that Formula 1 racing cars use them: they give the batteries more time to ramp up their chemical action, extending battery life as well as improving dynamics and a providing a faster response to demanding transients.”

I saw a claim that the Hugo was better without a pre-amp. but think some or all forum members with Hugo's still use a pre-amp. Presumably the reference you mention was with regard to driving active speakers?

Thinking of a logical representation of an analogue section as beginning in the DAC and continuing through any connected pre-amp is sometimes helpful due to the interchangeable purposes of many devices available. The sum of the parts.

What is being said here is that the capacitors can discharge their reservoirs quickly. This is better for the delivery of transients and dynamics in music and also better for the batteries by provide a degree of separation for them from responding to such real-time demands directly.

It seems clear to me that they are explicitly saying the sound is improved (transients, dynamics). I also believe the Naim sound has for many years been improved by the same use of capacitors so don't feel this is in any way contentious.

Whether the use of capacitors is as effective in the TT as in the Naim units will be interesting to hear. There are still differences. One has a transformer, the other a battery. One has regulation (DR) to lower noise, the other I don't know.

Thanks for the edification Mark.

Personally I wouldn't know a supercapacitor if it came up and bit me in the *ss,

but I get the feeling I might like it.

Nice to have you guys around who actually understand this stuff. 

Marky Mark - the better without a preamp comment also relates to passive loudspeakers. But you need efficient passive speakers - 100 dB per watt would so the trick.

My understanding is that the TT can be connected directly into a power amp, Robert Watts has stated on another forum that is the way that he has been using his Hugo to best effect. Although it wasn't stated as to what amp he was using.

It would appear that using a pre-amp remains optional, and now the TT has its own volume control via a remote control it seems plausible that a pre-amp is no longer a prerequisite, assuming no other inputs required. 

"4uS timing differences"  That factoid.  I know it refers to the human brains ability to differentiate sound arriving at one ear before the other so you can presumably pinpoint the direction of a predator or prey but what relevance does this have to music?

That ability of the brain to differentiate sound arriving at different ears 4uS apart may not translate into the ability of brain to differentiate or even register with the same accuracy timing of sounds arriving at each ear at the same time.

I think you guys need to read the Hugo TT blurb again. 

The FPGA ( i would check the spelling but my ipad would erase my draft post if i leave this tab ) array D to A conversion is the same as the Hugo and has the same sound quality. I.e. The digital state is the same, apart from improve USB input which now trumps Coax according to the designer.

They have improved the analogue stage with effectively a better power supply delivery.  I.e. The super capacitors.  

The Qute 2 is a Hugo light, which is probably aimed at those like me that want a DAC in a traditional system.  Its the bargain potentially.  The wall wart power supply would be normally upgraded to an after market linear one, like the one i use with my macbook. The designer thinks he has eliminated the need for this with design tweeks but obsessive audiophile may feel differently.

There is also a more upmarket DAC for March release that will presumably replace the QB76 level DAC which is probably where i should be looking given i run a Naim DAC in the context of a $60k system, although i would love to have a reference DAC ( which a sought to achieve with the nDAC) for a Qute 2 price.  

..........not that i am interested cos im being good this year.........i hope.

Yes the only change to the analogue outputs, apparently, is to add balanced analogue output circuitry, the other analogue circuitry we are told remains so as not compromise the Hugo sound. This was one of the areas that the designer apparently was very pleased with in the portable Hugo design.

 I was rather pleased with it too. It will be interesting to hear if the TT convienience comes at a slight cost of SQ. Time will tell.

Simon

Do you think the large capacitors, added to support dynamics and transients, are supplying the digital or analogue section?

I think analogue.

I don't know but I read some blurb somewhere on this where seemingly these  large capacitors were to compliment the new larger batteries in the TT. Supposedly lengrhening the life and increasing the performance of the new  TT batteries by providing an alternate current source for transients rather than relying on the battery itself... Anyway if this is the case then the capacitors will be common across all the powersupply sections ahead of each section's regulators and RFI filters. I seem to remember the latter is quite extensive in the Hugo. Large reservoir capacitors are not a good antidote for RFI.

Simon

Seems all agree the capacitors operating on the analogue section then. You feel the benefit of these is in battery life. Chord state there are also benefits in the delivery of transients and dynamics.

"extending battery life as well as improving dynamics and a providing a faster response to demanding transients."

We should be able to ask Rob directly when he's back from CES. For my part I'm definitely looking forward to trying a TT against my current Hugo - I would hope that my active ATCs will benefit from the balanced outputs, and I note that the galvanically isolated USB inputs of the TT are now said to offer the best performance of all the inputs which makes for an easy life with a pc as a source, and of course the remote control will be welcome.

I have just had a look at the new Hugo TT. I had a spare hour this afternoon and paid a visit to the Headroom show at the Metropolis studio in Chiswick , luckily only 10 minutes walk from my house. It looks fantastic and is extremely well made (heavy too), the Black one in particular would look lovely in-between any Naim stack . I was fortunate to have a brief chat with Rob Watts who I must say was very friendly and extremely humble for someone so obviously talented  . He told me that the biggest gain over the original Hugo when being used as a DAC was with the USB connections , these are galvanically isolated on the TT . One thing he was excited about was the QBD replacement which seems to have taken up most of his time over the last year , he described it as having incredible depth and will be unveiled at Munich this year . 

The show is on again tomorrow , its well worth a visit if you are nearby . Obviously its very much Headphone based but there's enough to keep us all interested . There are some interesting lectures regarding streaming and Digital audio from 11am , Rob Watts is giving a "Hugo technical master class" at 2 pm . 

I just wish I'd had more time to have a proper listen . 

Peter.