NAS threw a wobbly!

Posted by: The Meerkat on 25 January 2015

My Qnap NAS threw a wobbly last night, none of the music servers (Minim, Twonky and PLEX) would work. I kept getting error messages stating "Not enough RAM memory, Restart NAS". To cut a long story short, I switched the NAS off for 10 minutes, then back on again. This time everything was back to normal. Should this happen again, it could be a sign the Qnap is on it's last legs.

 

If this is the case, do I look for another domestic NAS, or use a Windows or Mac computer, which has a much better processor. The trouble with most NAS drives used with streamers, is that they are not very powerful. Qnap, Netgear and Synology NAS drives are used by many forum members, but is there an alternative to a NAS that would serve my music files, (including 24/96) to my ND5 XS?

 

I was using PLEX on the Qnap. I also have a version of PLEX on my iMac. The iMac is WiFi connected, so not sure if it would stream 24/96 without buffering.

 

 

Thanks

Posted on: 25 January 2015 by Bart

Don't be too quick to bin the QNAP.  They have plenty of "power" to stream music.

 

Are you running Minim, Twonky and Plex all of the time?  I have no idea, but maybe having all 3 of them active at once (and I assume you only use one at a time, and probably have a preference for one over the others) is chewing up the resources.  What if you just have your preferred server active?

 

I know we read here that 'nas's are crippled computers' but, really, a good nas can do this job easily.

 

Or maybe you are having a bad luck hardware problem.

Posted on: 25 January 2015 by Andrew Everard
Originally Posted by The Meerkat:

My Qnap NAS threw a wobbly last night, none of the music servers (Minim, Twonky and PLEX) would work. I kept getting error messages stating "Not enough RAM memory, Restart NAS". To cut a long story short, I switched the NAS off for 10 minutes, then back on again. This time everything was back to normal. Should this happen again, it could be a sign the Qnap is on it's last legs.

 

If this is the case, do I look for another domestic NAS, or use a Windows or Mac computer, which has a much better processor. The trouble with most NAS drives used with streamers, is that they are not very powerful. Qnap, Netgear and Synology NAS drives are used by many forum members, but is there an alternative to a NAS that would serve my music files, (including 24/96) to my ND5 XS?

 

I was using PLEX on the Qnap. I also have a version of PLEX on my iMac. The iMac is WiFi connected, so not sure if it would stream 24/96 without buffering.

 

 

Thanks

Depending on which QNAP it is, it may be possible to sling some more RAM into it. I've just done that on the TS-451 I've set up, upgrading from the standard 1GB to 4GB (although it's possible to fit even more).

Posted on: 25 January 2015 by The Meerkat
Originally Posted by Bart:

Don't be too quick to bin the QNAP.  They have plenty of "power" to stream music.

 

Are you running Minim, Twonky and Plex all of the time?  I have no idea, but maybe having all 3 of them active at once (and I assume you only use one at a time, and probably have a preference for one over the others) is chewing up the resources.  What if you just have your preferred server active?

 

I know we read here that 'nas's are crippled computers' but, really, a good nas can do this job easily.

 

Or maybe you are having a bad luck hardware problem.

Hello Bart 

 

Although all three servers are available, only one is 'enabled'. I use PLEX now days, before it was Twonky, but because of the problems with Twonky, which have been discussed countless times on the forum, I use PLEX which works perfectly with the Naim app on my iPad Air. 

 

You are right Bart, it is able to serve the files to the ND5 without a problem, but I have read various comments on the forum, about members using their NAS to store files in WAV, then playing them back in FLAC, or visa versa. My model Qnap and many others do not support transcoding, because the processors are too slow. 

Posted on: 25 January 2015 by The Meerkat
Originally Posted by Andrew Everard:
Originally Posted by The Meerkat:

My Qnap NAS threw a wobbly last night, none of the music servers (Minim, Twonky and PLEX) would work. I kept getting error messages stating "Not enough RAM memory, Restart NAS". To cut a long story short, I switched the NAS off for 10 minutes, then back on again. This time everything was back to normal. Should this happen again, it could be a sign the Qnap is on it's last legs.

 

If this is the case, do I look for another domestic NAS, or use a Windows or Mac computer, which has a much better processor. The trouble with most NAS drives used with streamers, is that they are not very powerful. Qnap, Netgear and Synology NAS drives are used by many forum members, but is there an alternative to a NAS that would serve my music files, (including 24/96) to my ND5 XS?

 

I was using PLEX on the Qnap. I also have a version of PLEX on my iMac. The iMac is WiFi connected, so not sure if it would stream 24/96 without buffering.

 

 

Thanks

Depending on which QNAP it is, it may be possible to sling some more RAM into it. I've just done that on the TS-451 I've set up, upgrading from the standard 1GB to 4GB (although it's possible to fit even more).

Hi Andrew

 

My Qnap (TS-112) only has about 250 mb of RAM! It's only a 1 bay drive.

Posted on: 25 January 2015 by Andrew Everard
Originally Posted by The Meerkat:

My Qnap (TS-112) only has about 250 mb of RAM! It's only a 1 bay drive.

Ah, unfortunately that's one of the QNAPs on which you can't upgrade the RAM.

Posted on: 25 January 2015 by Mike-B
Originally Posted by The Meerkat:
My Qnap (TS-112) only has about 250 mb of RAM! It's only a 1 bay drive.

Its time to move that NAS on to maybe back duties

Most modern streaming NAS have +500mb,  gaming NAS have double that

2 bay mirror RAID & remote backup is minimum

 

Posted on: 25 January 2015 by The Meerkat
Originally Posted by Mike-B:
Originally Posted by The Meerkat:
My Qnap (TS-112) only has about 250 mb of RAM! It's only a 1 bay drive.

Its time to move that NAS on to maybe back duties

Most modern streaming NAS have +500mb,  gaming NAS have double that

2 bay mirror RAID & remote backup is minimum

 

Hi Mike...What, after all that stuff with my noisy fan DIY box!  The Qnap is only three years old. I chose that model because I only wanted a one bay drive. My back ups are on my Mac and portable USB drive. And of course, price was a factor!  What about the transcoding on the fly feature? That would be a useful feature to have.

Posted on: 25 January 2015 by Mike-B

Hi Meerkat,  OK 1 bay is your choice,  but it needs more RAM,  as it has told you.

It probably has enough to go as it is, the reboot would have cleared the RAM. But if it keeps doing it,  it really is time to move on.  Can you remember last time you did a reboot & was that something you have done more frequently in the past.  

Don't understand your trans-coding question,  are you saying your system doesn't,  that's a media server function (Plex ??)

Posted on: 25 January 2015 by garyi

Where is the nas situated? This is sort of a key question in determining your future needs. If for some strange reason you have the nas in your living space, then you will be limited. If you can put that nas somewhere else out of the way then your options are endless.

Posted on: 25 January 2015 by fatcat

Meerkat.

 

I have the TS-112, I use it with a SB Touch. No problem streaming 24/96. I tried it with 192 Hires and it didn't cope with it, although the SBT may have been the problem.

 

See how it goes, you may get another 3 years trouble free use from it.

Posted on: 25 January 2015 by The Meerkat
Originally Posted by Mike-B:

Hi Meerkat,  OK 1 bay is your choice,  but it needs more RAM,  as it has told you.

It probably has enough to go as it is, the reboot would have cleared the RAM. But if it keeps doing it,  it really is time to move on.  Can you remember last time you did a reboot & was that something you have done more frequently in the past.  

Don't understand your trans-coding question,  are you saying your system doesn't,  that's a media server function (Plex ??)

Mike...The last time, was only a few weeks ago, when I had all that kerfuffle with the location of the drive, and change of Ethernet cables. on the PLEX website, there is a list of compatible NAS drives that will suort transcodIng. My little Qnap wasn't one of them, because of the small processor. Neither were some of the smaller Synologys, or Ready NAS. 

 

Am I right in saying, that it is the server, ie Assett, Minim, that do the transcoding, not the NAS it self? Even so, the NAS needs a big enough processor to do it, does it not? I have just been looking at Synology NAS drives, a few of those only have 256mb of RAM. 

Posted on: 25 January 2015 by The Meerkat
Originally Posted by garyi:

Where is the nas situated? This is sort of a key question in determining your future needs. If for some strange reason you have the nas in your living space, then you will be limited. If you can put that nas somewhere else out of the way then your options are endless.

Gary...after a massive kerfuffle re fan noise, and Ethernet cables! It is now located in another room, under the stairs, with a 12 metre Audioquest cat7 Ethernet cable to the switch.

Posted on: 25 January 2015 by fatcat
Originally Posted by Mike-B:

Hi Meerkat,  OK 1 bay is your choice,  but it needs more RAM,  as it has told you.

It probably has enough to go as it is, the reboot would have cleared the RAM. But if it keeps doing it,  it really is time to move on.  Can you remember last time you did a reboot & was that something you have done more frequently in the past.  

Don't understand your trans-coding question,  are you saying your system doesn't,  that's a media server function (Plex ??)

Why does he need more RAM.

 

250mb is 10 minutes worth of CD quality music or 8 minutes of 24/96.

 

The fact he's running a single HD and not mirrored raid means he doesn't need a large CPU. Mirrored raid is more CPU intensive than a single drive.

Posted on: 25 January 2015 by The Meerkat
Originally Posted by fatcat:

Meerkat.

 

I have the TS-112, I use it with a SB Touch. No problem streaming 24/96. I tried it with 192 Hires and it didn't cope with it, although the SBT may have been the problem.

 

See how it goes, you may get another 3 years trouble free use from it.

One more year would be good!  I was kinda thinking a head!

Posted on: 25 January 2015 by Mike-B

Meerkat,  you seem to be on top of the tech stuff,  processor size & RAM seems to be the limiting factor.   I've not seen a Synology with less than 512mb,  but maybe 'cause I haven't looked. 

Yes its the media server that does the transcoding, but as you have found it probably needs a capable processor to work with,  & maybe a 1 bay drive only needs 256mb anyhow.  (per fatcat)

Posted on: 25 January 2015 by The Meerkat
Originally Posted by Mike-B:

Meerkat,  you seem to be on top of the tech stuff,  processor size & RAM seems to be the limiting factor.   I've not seen a Synology with less than 512mb,  but maybe 'cause I haven't looked. 

Yes its the media server that does the transcoding, but as you have found it probably needs a capable processor to work with,  & maybe a 1 bay drive only needs 256mb anyhow.  (per fatcat)

That's a good point Mike. A one bay NAS would probably only need 256 MB RAM.

 

You have the DS214 with 512 mb of RAM. Do you transcode on the fly?

Posted on: 25 January 2015 by Mike-B

No I don't transcode 'cause I'm all .wav

My Synology Media Server is easily set for transcoding & I've tried it on .flac & .alac files, it works just fine, & it played gapless with transcoding as well,  but I prefer the SQ with .wav. 

Posted on: 26 January 2015 by The Meerkat
Originally Posted by Mike-B:

No I don't transcode 'cause I'm all .wav

My Synology Media Server is easily set for transcoding & I've tried it on .flac & .alac files, it works just fine, & it played gapless with transcoding as well,  but I prefer the SQ with .wav. 

Oh, I see. I thought some people store it in FLAC or AIFF, to reduce HD space, then transcode to WAV on the fly for playback. Or, do I have my wires crossed? I have to say, the Synology NASs do look feature filled. When I looked on the Synology site, I couldn't find anything about transcoding music files in the Spec. The 'DS 214play', does however mention transcoding 1080p movies on the fly, a feature I probably wouldn't use. As you have said Mike, it's the media server that decides if, what, how it transcodes. Do the Synologys come with a choice of media servers? I understand Synology have their own.

Posted on: 26 January 2015 by SB
Originally Posted by The Meerkat:

My Qnap NAS threw a wobbly last night, none of the music servers (Minim, Twonky and PLEX) would work. I kept getting error messages stating "Not enough RAM memory, Restart NAS". To cut a long story short, I switched the NAS off for 10 minutes, then back on again. This time everything was back to normal. Should this happen again, it could be a sign the Qnap is on it's last legs.

 

If this is the case, do I look for another domestic NAS, or use a Windows or Mac computer, which has a much better processor. The trouble with most NAS drives used with streamers, is that they are not very powerful. Qnap, Netgear and Synology NAS drives are used by many forum members, but is there an alternative to a NAS that would serve my music files, (including 24/96) to my ND5 XS?

 

I was using PLEX on the Qnap. I also have a version of PLEX on my iMac. The iMac is WiFi connected, so not sure if it would stream 24/96 without buffering.

 

 

Thanks

if you hadn't restarted your NAS for a long time, this could well have been a small memory leak in one the applications running on the NAS. For the non technical, this means that one of programs takes a piece of memory, but doesn't "give it back" to the system when it has finished using it. The next time the code requests memory it grabs a new piece. The result of this is that eventually the system will run out of memory. I would suggest that you check that the base code and all application on the NAS  are up to date before investing in new hardware.

Posted on: 26 January 2015 by james n

Meerkat - If this is the first time this has done this and it works well the rest of the time with no problems, then just put it down to a glitch - you restarted it and all is fine. If it keeps happening then look to change and follow the advice above on what to look for in a new machine. 

Posted on: 26 January 2015 by Mike-B
Originally Posted by The Meerkat:

........   I thought some people store it in FLAC or AIFF, to reduce HD space, then transcode to WAV on the fly for playback.

 

When I looked on the Synology site, I couldn't find anything about transcoding music files in the Spec.

 

Do the Synologys come with a choice of media servers? I understand Synology have their own.

Yes & more

1 - I have 2TB & with ~500 ripped CD & maybe 30 hi-res downloads,  my HDD is 20% full;  guess I can take a few more .wav files

2 - .flac & other formats are more user friendly with tagging than .wav,  personally I don't want more than I get with .wav,   I find ripping with dBpoweramp & the tag data contained in downloaded hi-res gives me all I need,  & despite rumours  I can edit if required.  I've only struggled with two ripped CD's,  I found a work-round myself & even the www tag peeps don't have the data for these. 

 

Transcode - Yes its all there, they just don't mention it.  Its so simple: open your own personal Synology webpage (1 click) > open media server (1 click) open DMA (1 click) > check the transcode box & each of the file formats you want to transcode from.

 

Synology have there own Media Server - I find it 100% perfect for my use, it does not display album art when searching folders by folder, artist etc - it shows just a "folder" icon & that's the way I want it.  I have it set to search by folder, album, artist, genre & more & combinations of all,  that gives me 14 main folder search options.  In search art is shown from the individual track level & of course once an album is selected all the art is there. 

They also package Minimserver,  I've tried it but I prefer the simplicity of Synology.

You can load any of the other media servers,  but Synology will not support if you need help.  

Posted on: 26 January 2015 by fatcat

Just carried out a few non scientific tests to gauge just how well the TS112 transfers data to my streamer. (SBT)

Playing CD ripped WAV, pulled the network cable. Music continued for 35 secs
Playing 24/96 flac, pulled the network cable. Music continued for 14 secs
This only indicates how much data is stored in the SBT, but it indicates the maximum time for each format.

I then tested how much data could be transferred in 5 seconds.

CD ripped WAV. Pressed play, pulled the network cable after 5 seconds. Music continued for 25 secs

 

24/96 flac. Pressed play, pulled the network cable after 5 seconds. Music continued for 14 secs.

 

This indicates 19 secs of 24/96 flac can be transferred in 5 secs. The bitrate of tracks tested ranged from 3,400 to 3,800 kbps.

Posted on: 26 January 2015 by Mike-B

Useful info fatcat - thanks

 

Not asking you to do so,  but it might be useful to compare 5 secs of connection time with a straight .flac -vs- transcoding .flac > .wav

Might do that when I get 5mins

Posted on: 26 January 2015 by fatcat
Originally Posted by Mike-B:

Useful info fatcat - thanks

 

Not asking you to do so,  but it might be useful to compare 5 secs of connection time with a straight .flac -vs- transcoding .flac > .wav

Might do that when I get 5mins

I would if I could but I can't. I've no idea if I'm listening to straight or transcoded flac.

 

I've just found a hires track that buffers on the SBT every few seconds. Don't know at the moment what resolution the music file it is. The SBT indicates bitrate of 5,500 flac, that is being converted to bitrate of 750.

Posted on: 26 January 2015 by Huge

Have you opened the NAS box and blown the dust out?  Dust accumulation on the heat-sinks after 3 years can easily be the cause of overheating and odd behaviours.

 

(Maybe saving the cost of the replacement NAS will help you save to upgrade the A5s - not my favourite Spendor speaker, IMO the ND5 and SN deserve better).