Music Matters Blue Note Re-Issues

Kuma,

I would stay away from any of the digitally remastered reissues, Japanese or not. The Blue Note Connoisseur series in the '90s were also dire.

I have a Toshiba-EMI pressing of Empyrean Isles but this is an analogue pressing from 1984 BNJ-71027. This is a pretty good pressing SQ wise and better than the DMM Blue Note pressing from the '80s which sounded quite bright and harsh. I haven't heard any recent analogue reissues to compare it with though. I prefer this album to Maiden Voyage.

ATB

Steve

Steve,

Older King Record reissues are better but I don't think it's worth the asking price. 

The was one of the earlier Japanese Toshiba-EMI Blue Train. It's a similar mix to my Japanese RVG Maiden Voyage where nothing is clear and everything seems fused together. 

Music Matters 33 rpm Blue Train just massacred it. A kind of dynamics and clarity I look for wasn't simply there from most of Japanese reissues so far.

I agree that DMM Blue Note isn't very good stripped of colours and naturalness.

I have to look to see which Empyrean Esles reissues I have. 

MM33 is due out in March.

Thanks,

I have emailed Jazzhouse and considering a subscription direct from MM, looking forward to more aural adventures from Englewood Cliffs

Richard

I just received and listened to Maiden Voyage and Undercurrent. They are excellent. Maiden Voyage, in particular, is a revelation compared to my 1980s era OJC. I also have Blue Train and Idle Moments in the 33 reissue series and about 20 titles in the 45. Music Matters is one of the few reissue labels I can unhesitatingly recommend (and purchase).

As to the comments regarding the AP reissues using the same mastering engineer(s), aht puts it most nicely: 

"As for AP vs. MM 45 RPM reissues, of course no direct comparisons are possible, since they licensed different titles, but in my opinion the MM generally have greater dynamic swing and flow (PRAT, if you will), vs. a "pretty" sound for the AP.  It seems that Ron is responsible for this difference."

I wouldn't be quite so kind.

Out To Lunch & Maiden Voyage on order from Music Matters in US
Sidewinder & Idle Moments on their way from Jazzhouse in UK
Has anyone heard any comparisons of the MM 33's with Classic Records issues?
I have a few of the Classic Records titles but don't really want to buy those again unless the MM's are a significant improvement.

I am as subscriber and received an email yesterday telling me that my next two albums in the 33rpm 2015 series have been dispatched.

I will report in due course.

Graham.

Correction,

I thought I was due to receive Out To Lunch & Maiden Voyage but I have just found that my subscription is starting at The Big Beat and Blue & Sentimental.
I am still expecting Sidewinder & Idle Moments from Jazzhouse Records which have been dispatched and hopefully be here for the weekend

Richard

Sidewinder & Idle Moments just arrived, beautifully presented these also have the LP's housed in a separate card sleeve to the gatefold. My MM copy of Moanin from Redspark Music came just with the gatefold.
I am going to enjoy this weekend!

Richard

Enjoy your Moanin'.

I love the MM reissue over Classic Records.

I agree Jay, I have a number of Classic records Blue Notes but don't want to shell out on duplicating these. Different pressings/masterings will always sound different so for how long do we want to keep buying the same records?
Cheers

Richard

I have quite a number of Blue Note albums on Classic Records. The SQ is generally very good but, in comparison with Music Matters, the pressing quality is a not as consistent. In some ways I prefer the Classic Records, although the clarity of presentation is slightly better most of my Classic Blue Notes are Mono which, to me always sound better than the stereo versions which tend to be very Left-Right.

I shan't buy any of the new Music Matters versions of the LPs I already have on Classic, or Analogue Productions for that matter. I don't share Jay's jaundice views of them. 

Jay,

For me, MM all the way.

Classic Records 33 rpm reissues are nice but the balance is different and that I found MM reissue sound more dynamic and realistic sounding. ( it passes my out of room test )

'Moanin, in particular, the speaking voice is so spooky as if the musicians were in my room standing right there!

It just dawned on me, tho, Classical Records' mono Somethin' Else might be better than stereo MM. Both of copies I have are stereo.

btw, a friend tells the new MM 33RPM Maiden Voyage sounds better than its test pressing!

How could it be?

I thought a test pressing is a record collector's holy grail.

Pretty much my thoughts, too.  If you have a flat & quiet Classic pressing then it really comes down to mono vs stereo and your preference for engineers.  The Classics tend to have the typical Grundman boost in the bass & treble while the MMs (& APs - they really do have a very similar EQ) sound a bit more flat on the EQ.  It really comes down to preference and I could easily see where one could be preferred over the other based upon system.

RE: Test Pressings - not sure is you're being sarcastic or not calling them the "holy grail".  Some of them can be pretty bad because they are exactly what they are: a test of the pressing.  Typically the bad ones are destroyed or discarded and often the very good ones are passed along to reviewers and other industry types (this is probably where the "holy grail" reputation might come from).  However, I know of a couple of audiophile labels who used their "discard" pile for giveaways for many years and when the label went belly-up dozens of these test pressings ended up on online auction sites and audiophile retailers selling for hundreds of dollars.  I have a couple of the giveaway copies and they sound so poor compared with the final pressing.  It is truly caveat emptor when it comes to test pressings.

MarkMck79,

I tell you what's similar in terms of EQ.  MM33 Maiden Voyage sounds like more dynamic and cleaned up version of Black 'b' Blue Note reissue. MM33's balance is much similar to this than to the AP Maiden Voyage, or Japanese Toshiba, or DMM or one more reissue I can't recall which label. ( maybe a later BN reissue)

Classic Records reissues are nice but MM 33s edge out in dynamics and lower noise floor for me. 

Interesting thing about a Test Pressing:

I have never heard or owned one but I always had an impression that they were the cream of the crop. ( sort of like a white label promo copy )

And you are right that I have seen them sold at Acoustic Sound online store at a premium. Some of them are priced as high as 500$USD.

If they used a *discard* pile, indeed that's not very ethical, is it? ( then again, this whole reissue business is a big crap shoot! )

One thing for sure is that Music Matters have upped the ante on packaging. There are no other reissues  that match the level of production. I greatly appreciate the high resolution litho printing (rather than a  digital print jobs of today) of wonderful Francis Wolff's B&W photos included in the MM reissues. 

If someone is looking to build a decent vinyl Blue Note collection, MM33s are excellent alternative to current Blue Note reissues or costly originals.

Here's a fascinating history of Blue Note.

Thank goodness for these two Germans!

I agree with you Kuma with regard to the lower noise floor etc. This though doesn't detract from the better presentation of the sound with the Mono Classic pressings. I love both of them. It is also true the MM 33 represent a reasonable value for you in the States. It's not so good over here. I've had some good deals at £30 - £35 but even this is a lot more than the Classics were when they were available. I was paying about £20 per LP. I don't want to subscribe to MM as there are many that would be duplicates and some that aren't to my taste.

'

I have a number of white label test pressings and I've been lucky that they are all good for SQ. in fact I have a Classics test pressing of Dexter Gordon A Swingin' Affair which I picked up on eBay for £20. The pressing is as good a most of my Classic LPs and better than some. 

In the late '60s and '70s white label test pressings could be picked up for very little in a newsagent chain called John Menzies. That's where I bought most of what I have. I wish I had bought more.

Steve

A bit off topic (but still Blue Note), we have this wonderful collection. Spans a fair range of top quailty material for those just wanting to dip their toe in various styles.

Good for those with a CD player Winky but we're discussing all analogue mastered reissues on vinyl. Unfortunately the digitally remastered vinyl from the '90s/early 00's when that box set was produced are dire.

That's why I prefaced my post with "A bit off topic" .

Good heavens. I am even afraid to ask what's the cost of MM 45 in the UK? :0

IIRC, Classic Records 33s were like 35$ USD back then. And current Analogue Production mono series are priced at 30$USD.

Did you get a lot of Analogue Production's 45 RPM reissues?

I am not an MM33 subscriber either. I'd rather cheery pick.

Hi Kuma,

I have about 20 AP 45s of various genres  but these were all bought in the States and brought to me by my children when they visited their mother in Florida. They are now in their twenties having graduated with jobs so their visits have curtailed. On Sophie's last visit a year ago she bought me back my first copies of the MM 33s but neither have been back since. I'll have to find another 'mule'. 

ATB

Steve

This weekend I have mostly been listening to The Sidewinder & Idle Moments

The Sidewinder in particular is stunning and genuinely blew me away. I was immediately struck by the holographic transparency that placed each player in their own space with air around them. I have a very difficult and unorthodox listening area which places restrictions on my speaker placement and I don't normally strive particularly for precise imaging as a result. However, listening with eyes closed I experienced a performance that transcended the boundaries of my listening area both wide and deep. Detailing is a revelation with every nuance and subtlety laid bare with the vocal inflections, moans and yehs! of the musicians easily heard. But this isn't just about image and space, this pressing possesses real verve and rhythmic drive. The music really grooves and insistently gets under your skin, you cant fail to be moved. Pressing is beautiful and silent. Highly Recommended.
Idle Moments is great sounding too but I have reserved most of my comment for The Sidewinder. Idle Moments doesn't seem to conjure up quite the same level of involvement and doesn't have the same sense of air and space that The Sidewinder manages.

I have taken out a subscription and awaiting delivery of the following;

Richard,

Not all Blue Note monos were stereo fold downs. I forgot which title was last.

Most of MM 33s are in stereo release but some are still mono like Blue Train for instance, they decided to keep it in mono.

Also, for the marketing reason. Most people prefer stereo over mono mix.

Somethin' Else's mono pressing caught me by surprised for sure.

btw, I find that Sidewinder is one of the best sounding MM reissue.

They are all excellent but some are better than others.

TEXT FROM MUSIC MATTERS WEBSITE - MONO VS STEREO

The mono vs. stereo question confronts anyone dealing with reissues of Rudy Van Gelder's Blue Note masters.
If the goal is getting to the essence of the music, we discovered that you cannot take a dogmatic view of this issue. Rudy Van Gelder first began recording Blue Note sessions in stereo in March of 1957. From then until an October 30, 1958 Art Blakey session, Rudy simultaneously ran both mono and stereo session tapes. After that session, Rudy abandoned the practice of running both mono and stereo session tapes and recorded strictly in stereo. The evidence is there for anyone to see who examines the original master tapes. When Kevin Gray, Ron Rambach and I began our first mastering session with our first six Blue Note masters we couldn't help noticing the clearly marked (by Alfred Lion) notations indicating "monaural masters made 50/50 from stereo master" on the master tape boxes.

http://www.musicmattersjazz.com/category_s/45.htm