Qobuz - bibliotheque nationale de france BnF

Did you ask Qobuz?

No.  

But have now listened to bits of a few albums streamed as Flac (obviously not the HiRes versions).  I can't detect a difference.  Just no cover art.

Iirc BNF keep copies of recorded material that is out of copyright without making any representation as to the source, so it could be a CD, cassette or vinyl transfer. I'm not sure whether qobuz will know the answer. As a reseller they are just making material available as an agent of BNF (If it works like literature)

R.K.

You raise a very good issue and one of the things I find flustrating about Qobuz with regard to out of copyright music. Dave Brubeck's "Time Out" album is a good example where there are four downloads to choose from:

1. Time Out - Columbia - Legacy (Distinctions - The Qobuz Standard) £12.89

2. Time Out (Remastered) EFOR, S.L. £7.99

3. Time Out - Columbia - Legacy £7.69

4. Time Out - Edition Ahorn £4.79

Which one do I choose?

Dave

Dave, can you not stream them first and decide which is the best.. And assuming all things equal go for the cheapest?

on streaming I value the diversity of masters on Qobuz, because some certainly sound better than others..

Simon

Simon, you can stream them as Flacs but not HiRes. 

As far as the Brubeck Time Out is concerned the remastered version has a number of extra tracks including Brother Can You Spare a Dime.  Makes it excellent value for me as I love that track. But for many others the BnF versions could be choice.

Indeed, though I think most hires media can also be streamed at 44.1/16.

Simon

Yes of course you are right and at the end of the day it's probably no different than the problems involved with buying re-issued vinyl or CDs.

As far as 2. above is certained I would certainly like to know the source for the "remastered" files. Surely they will still be held by Sony Columbia. As far as I'm concerned the choice would be between 1. and 3. But I definitely think it's a case of buyer beware.

Dave

R.K.

Some of us may question the origins of those extra tracks. Where they recorded at the same sessions as "Time Out"? If you're just a casual buyer then perhaps it doesn't matter.

Dave

Dave. 

Most of the bonus tracks seem to come from the 1954 album Brubeck Time (later released as Interchanges).

I've just found that I missed out the version that the thread was originally referring to:

Time Out (Stereo Version) - The Dave Brubeck Quartet

24 Bit 24-bit – 96.00 kHz

Released on January 1, 1961 by BNF Collection £3.19

So that's 5 versions on Qobuz then! As Huwge states the source of these BNF versions is dubious to say the least.

Dave

Actually if you search hard enough there is more than 5! I give up.

The bottom line I think is stick with Columbia Legacy and you won't go far wrong (same with Miles Davis recordings on Columbia)

Dave

If you look at discogs you'll see there have been 138 releases () of this album in total. Most of them on the vinyl format however. But it has been very popular since the beginning.

I prefer the remastering by Analogue Production from 2012 available as SACD, LP or DSD-files.

It's not dubious as much as unclear - the material is out of copyright and is legitimately made available by the library; the difficulty is determining the quality of the source material, based on the source used and the source format. Can one safely say that is a direct transfer or based on low rez files?

One would assume that everything is predicated on French law and so, French recording formats, i.e. it would be at the very least an official French recording. Regrettably, these are questions which can only be answered by the library and potentially only the archivist responsible for adding the material to the library's collection.

I've bought one or two of the Qobuz BNF 24 bit recordings and they are not the bargain route to hi res. At least one of them seems to be a vinyl transfer. They are cheap, though, so why not try one or two? You might be lucky!

BNF states that their releases come from records collected in the French National Library. Since they can only collect published records, you can be sure that you get vinyl transfers if the recording was published on vinyl records or of 78 rpm- records if this was the published version. The library won't have any access to original masters. It's the same as with Naxos Historical or Pristine Classical or Biddulph or many other labels which sell recordings out of copyright. So the sound quality may differ according to the quality of the recordings they use and the quality of the remastering. Using the original masters must not lead to better results, but if one uses the right tools and has enough knowledge of his jobs and the music he deals with, it should do so.

What makes me sceptical about BNF at Qobuz is the enormous amount they are publishing. This is only possible with some sort of automatical digital remastering, avoiding the pains of somebody using much time and devotion for the sources and the results.

Anyone considering buying 50's, 60's jazz from BnF should check out Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" album, the biggest selling jazz album ever. Buy cheap, buy twice.

Dave