BBC Web Streams

The BBC is rationalising its streams.

The Radio Three 320 AAC stream is gone for example - just 128 MP3 now.

Whether these higher definition streams will return is anybody's guess.

It has not stopped me enjoying the broadcasts though.

ATB from George

Interesting, I've just had a quicl look through my tunein stations and all but Radio 3 is 128 MP3 but Radio 3 is 320kbps HLS whatever HLS means and it sounds very good as all live broadcasts do on Radio 3. 

It would ne nice to have the AAC feeds back though. 

Per Google, HLS refers to Apple HTTP Live Streaming which seems to be a way of aggregating streams. Incan't profess to understand it, but is it a way of mixing streams higher bandwidth feeds can get a higher bitrate leaving poorer feeds to work on a lower resolution.

I emphasise I dont know much about it but trying to decode a complex Google response!

No doubt others will elucidate? 

I've 'lost' Radio 3/4/5.  Radios 1/2/6 OK.  Thank goodness no-ones messing with Paradise!

Its all WIP folks,  see Phil Harris sticky ............

BBC are changing their streaming to SHOUTcast mp3 format.

Naim & vTuner need to keep up with the changes to ensure Naim iRadio follows the changes,  so it'll be a bit disjointed for a few days.

The Beeb tell us that their work will be finished by the end of Feb but for the time being vTuner are busily trying to keep up with the streams that the BBC are telling them (and us) that are live and then no longer live and then live again ...

Phil

Strange, although vTuner on naim is not working for BBC streams it is fine on my Marantz and Denon systems which also use vTuner.

Hi Bonner,

I've just been speaking with both our own R&D director and also with vTuner and they have both checked all the BBC live feeds and they are al working fine for us...

If you have any presets then of course they will need to be updated as the changes occur but otherwise as far as we are aware there should be no issues here.

vTuner assure us that they are checking BBC streams hour by hour to ensure that outages in the period of the works are kept to a minimum.

Cheers

Phil

Thanks Phil, my presets have not worked for about a week now so I was reliying on the naim choice section of the app, now rhat has also stopped working so no BBC channels will play. I have done somr digging and I can only get the BBC streams by searching by location and choosing an mp3 stream. No AAC stream though. Stephen

Having emailed BBC I had a helpful reply, indicating that BBC are now using 'audiofactory' for live broadcasts and the shoutcast feed will only operate for a relatively short time and on MP3 only. If you google audio factory you will get to the bbc blog which explains (nearly) all. It sounds as though AAC will return fairly soon. Manufacturers were given 12 months notice of the changes.

Phil

Will V tuner be able to pick up the eventual AAC feeds fro audio factory?

Yes, we were given notice of the fact that they would be changing their services but - quite simply - they're not going exactly to the original plan.

vTuner were aware of the changes and are in continual contact with the Beeb and are updating links and URLs as they are notified but we are also finding that URLs that have been notified as 'live' are then later going offline and so it is in many cases necessary to temporarily drop back to the MP3 feeds to ensure that service continues in some capacity.

We are still assured that work will be complete by the end of February and there should be no issues with having the best quality feeds that they provide available via vTuner however for now we are having to work with what they are providing.

Phil

Thanks Phil. That is reassuring.

The Beeb are getting some stick for the dropping of WMA and the above mentioned blog has responses from Sonos users who fear they will lose out. I have no idea whether this is so, but it will be interesting to see if there is comment on the Media Show programme.

The BBC are getting HUGE grief with this change, I have never seen so much anger on the Audio Factory blog.  Seems that BBC on Sonos & Squeeze Box is rendered useless.

If the BEEB have a grain of customer care in their bones,  I would expect to see AAC & 320k back some time sooner rather than later

Meanwhile I'm sticking with the much superior FM for my BBC listening & iRadio for the RP. Naim, Linn & overseas stuff

....  and thinking about it,  with this web radio fiasco, BBC are doing a pretty good job to convince people to stay with FM.

....  and news on DAB,  aprx 160 new DAB transmitters are being installed - completion 1st qtr 2016 - & it will give something like 92% area coverage, the same as FM..  Plus bids are in for about 12 new DAB services.   Now all we need is BBC to move to DAB+ & free up some bandwidth space.

Mike

Can't disagree about FM. Currently loving Berlin Phil with Sir Simon performing Sibelius. So Smoooth! If FM ever goes, that"'s when the real complaints will flood in.

100% on FM going, FYI my radio industry contact is still saying only hold your breath if you can make it to 2020 & he believes digital broadcasting in whatever form evolves out from jurrasic DAB will be good enough by then to satisfy most of the peeps most of the time.

I was in two minds with Berlin Phil, but a new Santana download at "realistic" volume while 'erself is out won.  Now relaxing at cosy club volume with Diana Kralls "Wallflower",  also a new arrival.

Mike I don't know what your contact says for a local Suffolk mux. I understand as of Dec 2014 the view was 2019 by the earliest... and there are still real issues with Europen interference and so directional transmitters will need to be used limiting coverage and power... I understand Cumbria is also unlikely to get a local mux soon.. But at least no continental interference in that part of the world.

So unless you want the national BBC mux or the patchy coverage commercial Digital One national mux.. ( poor to hopeless in dips, estuaries and forests to the east of the county) Then FM it will have to be .. Possibly for ever... Can't say I am sad 

Simon

Simon, as it happens we were just chatting on the phone & he pointed me to look at http://radiotoday.co.uk/

162 new national DAB TX to raise coverage to 97%.  They will go up at a rate that should complete the program by end 2015, not Q1 2016 as I posted.

City Centre boost/in-fills will be London, Aberdeen, Bournemouth, Coventry, Glasgow,Leicester, Lincoln, Liverpool, Oxford & Plymouth

The rest are town & rural, the list around your way is …....
Suffolk (7) – Southwold, Bungay, Felixstowe, Sudbury, Ipswich

Essex (2) – Braintree, Harlow 
Norfolk (11) – Brandon, Fakenham, Downham Market, Kings Lynn, Thetford, Wells-next-the-Sea

There is a new commercial MUX up for bids at the moment.

I would love FM forever, but I'm beginning to see the day when some form of digital system(s) will prevail, but my bet is still on post 2020.

Yes. The comments on the BBC blog post are pretty strong. 

Sonos users have 2 real issues:

1. Sonos devices don't support HLS (Apple) / HDS (Adobe) or DASH using AAC.  

2. The fallback option using the low quality international only mp3 streams means that instead of listening to the cricket world cup this weekend you'll get a pre-recorded loop telling you about rights restrictions irrespective of your location. In any case these mp3 streams will only be available for a limited time.

Not good really! Like Naim Sonos use a third party radio provider. There is some talk of asking TuneIn if they can decode and rebroadcast the new streams.

Mike.. Ok that is clearly news.. However what mux frequency will Suffolk use. Are Felixtowe, Ipswich, and Southwold on the same mux frequency? If so these  will be extreme low power as Ipswich and Felixtowe are approx only  8 miles apart and be equivalent to community radio on FM in those towns now that fade within a few miles. (Perhaps also required to avoid continental interference) So for the rest of the county outside of these towns this will effectively be useless

Greg, Sonos use a few web radio providers including TunIn and Stitcher.. Who offer competing collections

Perhaps that's why they need Deezer lossless!

Little or no info that I can find Simon,  none of the info providers are up to speed on this, many say no advertising info.  

Plus I can add that when touring the bird reserves of Suffolk last summer,  I was particularly un-impressed with hotel rooms & awful or non-existent reception, including FM.  So I concluded what I heard - albeit out in the sticks - has got some way to go to match the more populated areas,  & looking at the transmitter map locations compared to the areas inland, it tends to confirm Suffolk is not well served now, so anything more will be huge steps better. 

Mike, ok please keep us updated.. Yes FM is a lot better though.. and genereally unless in a hollow in the car I have few problems with BBC local and the main commercial regionals from Norfolk and Suffolk. Also the main national BBC coverage from Tacolneston appears good.. But if there is a "Sporadic E" lift, then the interference from the continent can make FM quite  noisy on the east.

Mobile coverage has similar challenges.. Although there appear  few zero carrier areas outside of dips and hollows, each network can end up quite patchy away from the relatively few main towns and the A12/A14/A140...

However the combining of T mobile and Orange networks with EE on the 1.8GHz networks has helped though. I imagine O2 combining with 3 will help as well.. This time combining 900MHz and 1.8GHz

A more detailed list

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rec...CDABPhase4byarea.pdf

  as I understand it ... one of the features of DAB is to have transmitters all on the same frequency(s)  ....  all the DAB transmitters for a network operate on the same frequency using a common MUX. With my AM & FM hat on, this would be bad reception, but I understand the opposite is true with DAB as out of area signals augment the main tx signal. it is especially beneficial with black hole areas can have a small transmitter on exactly the same frequency as the main tx to fill in the hole.

BBC Radio 5 Live & Live Extra 128kbps CBR MP3 working OK here on my Squeezebox's using the TuneIn Radio plugin and saving as Favourites.

Dave

All of my BBC "channels" are working on the squeezebox. I think the issue is that they're at 128k!