BBC Web Streams

try:

http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/uk/sbr_high/ak/bbc_6music.m3u8

If you don't already know "/sbr_high/", in the address, gives you access to 320kbps streams, "/high/" is 128kbps.

Dave

try: http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/medi...h/ak/bbc_6music.m3u8.

If you don't already know "/sbr_high/", in the address, gives you access to 320kbps streams, "/high/" is 128kbps.

Dave

Fantastic. All set for the weekend now!

...but what the hell is HLS and will Naim streamers be able to play it?

Keith

HLS = HTTP Live Streaming. This is all new to me but the best place to start is probably:

http://iplayerhelp.external.bb...hanges_audio_formats

Regarding your second question Phil Harris (Tech Support) has already posted on this thread.

Dave

PS You could get yourself a SB in the mean time.

So I have I got this right?

Naim streamers will get AAC, but Naim or vTuner have to do some stuff. SB users can already get AAC because vTuner/Naim have been beaten to it by some amateur enthusiasts?

Keith

re: SB users, that seems to be the case.

Dave

It is a pity that naim don't have a BBC iPlayer implementation like the one that has been available to Squeezebox users for some years.  I would have thought that it would be a good selling point for the Mu-so at least.  In the meantime using a tablet or iPod as a source works quite well.

For anyone that may be interested the Australian cricket is being broadcast on BBC Five Live Sports Extra; Apple HLS m3u8 format.

Dave

Quote from the BBC Blog Sat 14 Feb 2015 09:03:

Logitech Squeezebox – We’ve had lots of contact from disgruntled Logitech Squeezebox owners, I am pleased to say that I believe that most of the concerns here are about to be addressed thanks to the work of some of the active Squeezebox community and from Logitech who are now talking to us about supporting our Shoutcast streams. For Squeezebox users in the UK this should result in them being able to access not just Radio 3 in the highest quality, but also across all 57 of the radio stations currently supported by Audio Factory.

Dave

Looks like Naim/vTuner have work to do PDQ 

R-3 is still not available in Naim Choice & its not listed in Popular Stations,  but I can get it via PC & other stuff. Hopefully they will read some of the info on Logitech & do similar.

Having entered the URL for the new HLS stream on my ipad I can receive the Radio3 broadcasts. I have no means at present of checking whether this is true high bit rate, nor of getting the ipad stream into the preamp or Separate DAC.

Clearly, HLS is an Apple format and the Beeb have chosen to go with that. The question is, can V tuner  make those streams available to Naim streamers? Presumably Naim cannot interpret HLS (that is my presumption, I could be wrong) and so V tuner would have to 're-broadcast' the interpreted stream in a Naim friendly format. 

Perhaps others understand more about how V tuner works. Maybe Steve H or Phil H can elucidate?

Presumably there will be similar problems for other hardware users of V tuner? 

Notwithstanding the official BBC pronouncements, I do wonder whether the real reason for their change to adaptive streaming is to enable them to reduce the bitrate in busy periods as internet radio increases in popularity.

The folks over at Linn are also revolting,  it could be a cc of this thread - but with a lot more posts.

A Linn staff guy has just posted - & I suspect it might be similar to the situation with vTuner & Naim.

" ...........  HLS code uses a license that is incompatible with our current release practices. It is also written to rely heavily on dynamic memory allocation. This is extremely common for desktop development but is unsuitable for an embedded system with relatively constrained memory that is expected to run for long periods.

We will get HLS support added. This'll require that we write then fully test new code rather than simply integrating existing third party components. Please bear with us! "

Regarding the above post, this poses an interesting problem: Does a manufacturer

• abandon an existing platform that is power-efficient with a known noise floor, in favor of some other platform?
• design their own hardware platform with a decent amount of RAM and processing power available, perhaps with separate processing domains (e.g., MPU, DSP, FPGA) for certain types of processes, but with significant R&D budgets and their own application code (and OS overlay) to maintain
• simply offload this to an outside commodity device, e.g., an external computing device

I've seen this happen before in other areas of embedded computing, where there is a threshold by which simply being economical and efficient ceases to be a virtue (and ends up being more expensive and time-consuming)....

Oh my god!  Does that mean that for the sake of a few pence they have not thought ahead and put some cheap memory chips in devices costing thousands of pounds?  Their streamers deserve better etc etc, I'll get me coat!

It's not just memory, it's the CPU overhead required to fill and drain those buffers....

Another reason why it is as well to use a MAC [other computer makes are available] to do the leg-work with streaming. These are specified [CPU and memory for two examples] far beyond any demands that streaming makes!

Shackling to current proprietary streaming devices is simply illogical when nobody can say where streaming is going for months ahead, let alone years!

Did anybody see this BBC change coming? I think not!

ATB from George

I like the look and flexibility of the Aurelic Aries which does a heck of a lot of what people have been asking for on here on other threads and which seems to be developing at a fair old rate but can't find anywhere iin my part of the country where they stock it to have a listen

I heard it might be happening quite a while back,  but got to know it was happening for sure around Aug/Sept.

Fair enough, but could you do anything about it?

Streaming is at the mercy of what is sent quite as much as whether the harware'software combination that you have is capable of dealing with it.

I noticed the Hi-res [320 AAC] Radio Three stream had disappeared from the iTunes list, so I went to the Radio Three webpage, and the same stream had gone from there as well. Just the 128 MP3 stream available there [I think it was 128 MP3, though I could be wrong]. I thought this sounded acceptable on the recent Simon Rattle Sibelius series with the BPO from London's Barbican Hall. 

In recent weeks I had noticed a tendency for Radio Four to hang on the buffer [message reads "Re-buffering"] using iTunes, so started to use the Radio Four webpage for it instead as there was no buffering issue with that. I have a very good broadband connect - fibre to the cabinet, so it is not a BB issue here.

At least I am able to make a direct link to the BBC via their webpages. Much harder to deal with it, when using a preselected list from a radio provider on proprietary hardware ...

ATB from George

Or should they have? To quote Jim Simmons on the BBC Blog:

"We have been communicating our plans to manufacturers and aggregators for the last 12 months but we are aware that some devices will not be able to receive these new formats, or there may be gaps in service as manufacturers work to deliver upgrades to devices to make them compatible with our new streams. We will continue to work with them to provide the best service we can".

"I am hopeful that as the year (2015) progresses more and more manufacturers will support our new HLS and DASH delivery methods. I know of some devices that already support our HLS streams. I know some companies that are working on their compatibility right now and we are working with others on our DASH delivery. I hope you understand that because of my position I cannot name names for either good or ill. We are happy to work with manufacturers, aggregators and developers to enable and upgrade more devices".

Jim Simmons is Senior Product Manager, Audio Services, BBC Radio and Music

Dave

Dear Dave,

Truth is that not all of us have the wish to follow blogs on the net!

Most of what is on the net is utter tripe in any case!

I am not sure what the BBC is trying to achieve, and so I don't have any idea for why change is being made ... Does this open up the possibility of Radio Three being broadcast live as CD quality in time? I have no idea. Or is it a cost cutting exercise? 

In any case it sounds fine enough on the BBC webpages to me. 

ATB from George

I was referring to equipment manufacturers and aggregators being aware of the pending changes.

Dave

NAD have offloaded their streaming solution to a plug in board e.g. M12 and Devialet is using an external peripheral. @dayjay mentioned the Auralic Aries. All of these devices share the fact that they are at their heart audio optimised computers, with relatively powerful CPUs, memory and storage.

The main gripes are

1. Although the WMA cessation had been forecast it had not been made clear that AAC would also be lost

2. It would have been preferable (and should have been regarded as essential) to run the old along withbthe new until a workaround had been devised by the internet community.

incidentally, following a comment in the Linn forum, I have installed VLC on my PC and can getbthe new streams on that now, which I can send to my DAC. No idea still whatbthe bitrate is, and FM is still miles better. The point is, it should not be beyond the wit of man to get the new streams to the Naim streaming products. Linn appear to have given acommitment to do so.

Care to comment Naim?

Dear Dave,

Even so, the BBC has moved far faster than one could expect manufacturers to keep up with. 

This kind of information needs years, not months, of notice for an effective and reliable response to be implemented.

Just my thoughts. I may well be completely wrong. In the meantime, I'll stick with a MAC to be be at least able to cope with a fast shifting situation!

ATB from George