BBC Web Streams

Posted by: Mr Paws on 10 February 2015

Hi to all,

 

i seemed to to have lost my AAC feeds on Radio 2 & 5 Live. After a bit of a root around I found some MP3 feeds which don't sound as good as the AAC feeds so does anyone know what's going on here?

 

i know the BBC have been rolling out revamped AAC feeds lately but I've had my AAC feeds for ages only to lose them so I'm a bit confused. 

 

Any my help greatfully received and thanks in advance.

Posted on: 15 February 2015 by KRM

The BBC are getting dogs' abuse in the comments on their blogs. 

 

I've just sent a perfectly reasonable post and it's being moderated. It looks like they are checking everything. Let's hope this is a sign that they're getting unprecedented bad feedback. Having said that, I doubt they will back down, no matter how bad it gets.

 

Keith

 

Edit - my post passed moderation.

Posted on: 15 February 2015 by Mike-B

I had the same KRM. Also talking to someone I know who is a techie in the radio/broadcast industry, he says that it seems they have been seriously embarrassed & from what he hears on his jungle drums they are in damage limitation mode.  But yr right,  I doubt they will back down.  Here's hoping vTuner & Naim can work out a solution PDQ. Meanwhile I'm sticking to FM for BBC.  

Posted on: 15 February 2015 by Kevin-W
Originally Posted by wanderer:

It could just be that the BBC want to discourage internet access, the growth in which would presumably place an increasing load on their servers, and want people to accept DAB, which would just mean a steady transmitter broadcast?

 

Thanks again to Trevor for your assurances regarding the future access to HLS (and whatever other nefarious devices from broadcasters ). 

 

While FM is clearly superior, switch-off will occur sometime (the way the BBC operate it could be next week, what do they care!) and relatively high bitrate internet seems to be the current best alternative. Maybe FLAC will come one day if on demand FLAC streaming (qobuz etc) becomes a standard.

 

The BBC has no authority to switch off FM. Under the Royal Charter it is obligated to provide "content" across all available platforms. Only the Government (specifically, the DCMS or Home Office) can "switch off" FM. In fact it may never happen, despite what the idiotic Ed Vaizey told a SMMT conference the other day.

 

Audio webstreams account for a minute proportion of the BBC's web server load - the vast majority - more than 88%, I've been told - is accounted for by TV, especially as more people stream or download increasing amounts of HD content. So I don't see what your point is.

 

All that said, the downgrade of these streams sounds like a typical BBC management cock-up.

Posted on: 15 February 2015 by Kevin-W
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

Perhaps it shows a level of immaturity with the BBC and online streaming technology...

Simon, the BBC, through the iPlayer, has done more than anyone else to popularise streaming and downloading, wouldn't you say? I can't see why you think there is immaturity there. The iPlayer is still the gold standard, in the UK at least for the vast majority of ordinary people, who find it convenient and easy to use. There is a world outside this hi-fi forum bubble, which too many posters forget.

 

All that said, you're right, Auntie's handling of this has been - sadly, all too typically - shambolic; and probably sanctioned by one of their overpaid and useless senior managers - or an overpaid and parasitic management consultant.

Posted on: 15 February 2015 by Mike-B

#@%"!  Kevin-W,  you beat me to it

+1  BBC has no authority to switch off FM

Posted on: 15 February 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Originally Posted by Kevin-W:
Originally Posted by wanderer:

It could just be that the BBC want to discourage internet access, the growth in which would presumably place an increasing load on their servers, and want people to accept DAB, which would just mean a steady transmitter broadcast?

 

Thanks again to Trevor for your assurances regarding the future access to HLS (and whatever other nefarious devices from broadcasters ). 

 

While FM is clearly superior, switch-off will occur sometime (the way the BBC operate it could be next week, what do they care!) and relatively high bitrate internet seems to be the current best alternative. Maybe FLAC will come one day if on demand FLAC streaming (qobuz etc) becomes a standard.

 

The BBC has no authority to switch off FM. Under the Royal Charter it is obligated to provide "content" across all available platforms. Only the Government (specifically, the DCMS or Home Office) can "switch off" FM. In fact it may never happen, despite what the idiotic Ed Vaizey told a SMMT conference the other day.

 

Audio webstreams account for a minute proportion of the BBC's web server load - the vast majority - more than 88%, I've been told - is accounted for by TV, especially as more people stream or download increasing amounts of HD content. So I don't see what your point is.

 

All that said, the downgrade of these streams sounds like a typical BBC management cock-up.

Kevin - I agree about not having the authority to 'switch off' FM.

Posted on: 15 February 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Originally Posted by Kevin-W:
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

Perhaps it shows a level of immaturity with the BBC and online streaming technology...

Simon, the BBC, through the iPlayer, has done more than anyone else to popularise streaming and downloading, wouldn't you say? I can't see why you think there is immaturity there. The iPlayer is still the gold standard, in the UK at least for the vast majority of ordinary people, who find it convenient and easy to use. There is a world outside this hi-fi forum bubble, which too many posters forget.

 

All that said, you're right, Auntie's handling of this has been - sadly, all too typically - shambolic; and probably sanctioned by one of their overpaid and useless senior managers - or an overpaid and parasitic management consultant.

 

Kevin,I'm should have been clearer, I was referring to radio web streaming. The media and content management systems are second to none.. But the online web radio streaming and the media transmission side seems to have been hit and miss and fragmented and inconsistent.. Almost as if there was not a clear evolution strategy and architecture. The latest episode does noting to dispel my suspicions.

Simon

 

Posted on: 15 February 2015 by Kevin-W

I see what you mean Simon, and I agree.

 

On a related point, I know - as a regular listener to Radio 4's Feedback - that a lot of radio listeners have been disgruntled by the fact that you can no longer stream past programmes on a TV - only live shows. Nobody seems to know why this facility was abandoned.

 

I wonder if it's anything to do with the Beeb's transmission being sold off?

Posted on: 15 February 2015 by Kevin-W

If anyone's interested, in the latest edition of Feedback, a tech guy from the BBC kind of sorta explains it (maybe).

 

Here

 

The item is about 8-9 minutes in.

Posted on: 15 February 2015 by George J

But if you want the BBC Sports coverage, it is still easy,

 

Go to the BBC webpage and select radio. 

 

Then select Five Live.

 

Listen directly to the webpage stream.

 

Simples.

 

Okay you need a computer, but I guess that you are not on the Forum without one ...

 

ATB from George

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by likesmusic

If you hunt about the JRiver forum you will find a very useful thread, from which I extract this:

 

There are new HLS AAC URLs, however the high quality AAC streams only work from within the UK.

ie. for Radio 1:

UK High: http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/medi...k/bbc_radio_one.m3u8
UK 320: http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/medi...k/bbc_radio_one.m3u8
non-UK: http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/medi...k/bbc_radio_one.m3u8

Those are HLS streams using AAC audio. They play fine in MC, given the quality notice above.
The world-wide nonUK streams are 48kbps AAC-HE streams. Should be about equal quality to MP3 128.
 
 

 

There are also BBC blogs about the issue:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/int...83-ac16-3938cfb4b882

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/int...b2-a23c-71680c49882f

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by GregW

The story has now made the BBC News site.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-31487515

 

Never  good when you become the story for amy broadcaster.

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by dave4jazz

At least one internet radio manufacturer seems to have got it's act together:

 

http://www.robertsradio.co.uk/...s/FAQs/STREAM202.pdf

 

Dave

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Originally Posted by GregW:

The story has now made the BBC News site.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-31487515

 

Never  good when you become the story for amy broadcaster.

"I dragged my old FM tuner out to the loft and it works well and there is no sign of rust."

 

Priceless..

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by dave4jazz
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

Originally Posted by GregW:

The story has now made the BBC News site.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-31487515

 

Never  good when you become the story for amy broadcaster.

"I dragged my old FM tuner out to the loft and it works well and there is no sign of rust."

 

Priceless..

Enjoy it while you can:

 

"It’s probable that the radio switchover criteria will be met by 2017 and the Government of the day will be able to take a measured and informed decision of when to set a timetable for the switchover from analogue to digital". Ed Vaizey speech to Drive to Digital Feb. 10, 2015.

 

Full text here:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/...-to-drive-to-digital

 

Dave

 

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk

I suspect national FM will be around far longer than Ed Vaizey's scorecard perhaps suggests.

The alternatives just are not there.. Certainly in my part of the world.. Even the DAB radio in my car is largely useless with dead spots and dropouts  unless I drive to other parts of the country.. Although the squelching mud sound has been eliminated now in favour of a silent dropout .. Perhaps progress?

Posted on: 17 February 2015 by Mike-B
Originally Posted by dave4jazz:
"It’s probable that the radio switchover criteria will be met by 2017 and the Government of the day will be able to take a measured and informed decision of when to set a timetable for the switchover from analogue to digital". Ed Vaizey speech to Drive to Digital Feb. 10, 2015. 

Even is the criteria is met by 2017, the listener & coverage numbers are not they only part of the challenge & as a result, despite politicians, inside the radio industry its considered unlikely that FM will  get switched off until 2020 or later.  

To Simon's' point re DAB coverage, we have exchanged info on this last week,  there is a huge DAB transmitter installation program ongoing now, completion at year end 2015 & will give ~97% population coverage & be much the same as FM is now.

That all said, its all politics & politicians have the ability to say different things at the same time depending on audience & whatever whim changes the planned policy.  & you never know after May it might be a different set of politicians - then all bets are off.  

 

Posted on: 17 February 2015 by dave4jazz
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

I suspect national FM will be around far longer than Ed Vaizey's scorecard perhaps suggests.

The alternatives just are not there.. Certainly in my part of the world.. Even the DAB radio in my car is largely useless with dead spots and dropouts  unless I drive to other parts of the country.. Although the squelching mud sound has been eliminated now in favour of a silent dropout .. Perhaps progress?

Simon

 

Looking on the bright side, whenever FM switch-off occurs, you should be able to listen to the new BBC HLS stations, on your HDX, by then.

 

Dave

Posted on: 17 February 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Originally Posted by dave4jazz:
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

I suspect national FM will be around far longer than Ed Vaizey's scorecard perhaps suggests.

The alternatives just are not there.. Certainly in my part of the world.. Even the DAB radio in my car is largely useless with dead spots and dropouts  unless I drive to other parts of the country.. Although the squelching mud sound has been eliminated now in favour of a silent dropout .. Perhaps progress?

Simon

 

Looking on the bright side, whenever FM switch-off occurs, you should be able to listen to the new BBC HLS stations, on your HDX, by then.

 

Dave

And hopefully by then we will have a reliable broadband with an appropriate speed.

Superfast is coming to our village apparently in 2018 using state funding... apparently..  but I wont hold my breath - all these DAB transmitters have got to be paid for somehow 

Simon

Posted on: 17 February 2015 by GregW

The BBC have now made a small reversal. Radio 3 HD Sound on Shoutcast has been re-enabled:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/int...f5-8506-723303f2887e

 

The have also provided a direct link to the stream:

 

http://open.live.bbc.co.uk/med.../bbc_radio_three.pls

Posted on: 17 February 2015 by Mr Paws

well I've read all the replies and as usual some excellent content in there but I'm still confused to be honest.

 

For most of my life I've loved listening to the Radio as far back as 1972 made my own radio from an electrical kit brought to me by Father Christmas listening to Radio Luxembourg / Carolie on fadeaway AM then I was delighted when the BBC went FM stereo and the Top 20 went on FM. 

 

I'm feeling somewhat disillusioned at the moment because of the apparent confusion surrounding the BBC codecs and bitrates etc. IWhen DAB was launched a friend of mine who worked in a local HI-FI shop let me borrow an Arcsm DAB tuner and it sounded quite good. I seem to remember that Radio 5, as it was known then, was broadcast at 256kbps sometimes in Stereo as was all the other BBC stations. That was around 1996 and I thought great I'll get a DAB tuner so I did. Some years later I get into streaming because it's now very good and it's the future but like dab most of it sounds terrible and now my beloved BBC is pissing about with the web streams. 

 

The other problem is from my point of view is whether to get into FM again as I've mentioned on another topic last year. I'm real tempted to go and get hold of an old Naim Tuner or something else of similar quality. In fact I'll definately go for a new dedicated FM aerial posted at Hlome !oss see if my UQ1 likes it and just use FM for BBC radio only. I'm fairly confident i can have one fitted for not more than £120:00. 

 

Sod it got to be done.. 

Posted on: 19 February 2015 by GregW

Good news for anyone with a Sonos hooked up to their Naim. Sonos have confirmed they will be supporting HLS.

 

We can confirm that we’re committed to developing support for HLS streaming. We don’t have a timeline or ETA to share right now, as we are still in the process of investigating the details of the implementation, but as soon as we have more news we’ll share it here.

Posted on: 19 February 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Ok, this is good as an interim, howerver HLS is a proprietary presentation technique , what we really need is also support for the MPEG Dash technique which is the standardised non proprietry presentation approach. Almost certainly that will be the longer term BBC resting place for adaptive sample rate streaming.

Simon

Posted on: 19 February 2015 by KRM

Buying a second hand Sonos Connect (into the NDS) last week, is looking like an inspired move!

 

Keith

 

 

Posted on: 20 February 2015 by GregW
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

Ok, this is good as an interim, howerver HLS is a proprietary presentation technique , what we really need is also support for the MPEG Dash technique which is the standardised non proprietry presentation approach. Almost certainly that will be the longer term BBC resting place for adaptive sample rate streaming.

Simon

 

Although it's not explicit, based on their previous comments Sonos appear to consider HLS/HDS/DASH as one implementation. It's also helpful that the BBC have been able to clear up any confusion over their direction of travel, which is to say a switch to DASH in the next 12 months.