UnitiServe/DAC or UnitiServe/NDX

Do you have any intention of having a second system in the home?  I do uServe -> NDS, and also uServe -> Qute, so I much favor UPnP over a direct connection to the Dac.

Hadn't really thought about more than one system so at this stage it would just be my main system. 

In the last year, a lot of people have been moving away from nDac--> third party Dacs.  The NDX is great but is better when feeding my Hugo.  Perhaps you could do uServe --> Hugo for the cheapest-best-easy solution.

Thanks Kevin, The Chord DAC is now available here (i'm in New Zealand) at about 60% the price of a Naim DAC.  I haven't heard one yet though.  

Is the need for regular charging a pain?  Do you have to disconnect it etc.?  

Also do you connect via SPDIF or ethernet?

Hugo stay's connected to the mains permanently.  Ethernet connection will be to your streamer then SPDIF, optical or USB to Hugo.

Sounds better than the NDAC/555PS when fed by an NDX ime.

G

Realistically at this stage I can only afford a UServe + one other box so suggestions need to be viable as two boxes with the option to add more at a later date.

The one point that hasn't been addressed so far that really interests me is

"UServe SPDIF into DAC vs UServe ethernet into Streamer"  

This appears to be a fairly contentious issue that I am keen to understand.  Why does Doug Graham and my naim dealer recommend SPDIF into DAC while so many others recommend ethernet into streamer?

I went from cdx2/555ps to a userve/dac/555ps to a nds/userve/555ps and unsurprisingly found it step an upgrade. My biggest step was from the cdx2 to the userve/555ps, i remember thinking wow I've finally found enjoyable digital. Then going to the nds I gained openness and detail. I've never heard the ndx but wouldn't be surprised if the ndac pips the nds at the post. I believe that when the nds was released the consensus was that the nds bettered the ndx ndac combo.

The reason why this point has not been addressed is that its discussion requires some care. First of all it is important to understand what uServe is and what Naim streamers are. To this end, it is useful to keep in mind Naim's digital lineup table

http://www.dpreview.com/galler...tallineup2013-02-12b

Naim appears to have stopped providing this kind of information which makes it's product range even less understandable. In a nutshell:

UServe:          CD player, ripping station, UPnP server

NDS, NDX, ND5XS:   UPnP client and control point, DAC

A further point to keep in mind in discussing the "UServe SPDIF into DAC vs UServe ethernet into Streamer" question is that both alternatives have alternatives: many users who have implemented a streaming solution based on Naim streamers do not rely on uServes as UPnP server. Similary, many users that have implemented a "SPDIF into DAC" solution do not use uServes to feed their DACs. There are, in my view, good reasons not to use a uServe as a UPnP server or as a SPDIF player. And, of course, there are good reasons to do so.

In the following, I will not consider non-uServe based solutions and focus on the question you have raised: "UServe SPDIF into DAC vs UServe ethernet into Streamer". Let me point out that I am not an active user of either uServe or of a Naim streamer. For details, please check my profile. My assessment of the advantages (+) and disadvantages (-) of the two alternatives are:

uServe SPDIF into DAC:

  + you do not need to invest in an integrated (UPnP client + DAC) component

  + you do not need a low latency, high bandwidth LAN for replay

  - you need an Ethernet cable to your router (might be avoidable with a USB wifi dongle)

  - you have to rely on Naim's nServe app to control replay (avoidable ?)

  - you invest in an unflexible, proprietary server platform

uServe into ethernet into streamer:

  + you can easily implement a multi-room solution 

  + you do not have to rely on Naim's control app

  - you need to invest in an integrated (UPnP client + DAC) component

  - you need a low latency, high bandwidth LAN for replay

  - you need to wire both the streamer and the uServe to your router (meaningfully via a switch)

  - you invest in an unflexible, proprietary server platform

Speaking more generally on "streaming vs direct serving (via SPDIF or USB)", my personal assessment is that there are no obvious advantages of streaming vs. direct serving. There are authoritative opposite views, of course, and you will find a lot of interesting posts in this forum. Best, nbpf

+1 (King Size, I do not particularly like dealing with OS X but if you happen to be in Apple's universe this is a very valuable suggestion, I believe)

Naim didn't produce this table. It was a forum initiative, based on an original idea by Aysil, which I developed into a chart.

Here's the latest version :

In reply to King Size, I can heartily recommend the UnitiServe HDD & DAC route.

I've gone from the U/S + Naim DAC+XPS, to U/S+Hugo, to U/S+Resonessence Labs Mirus. The Mirus DAC has effectively killed off any desire to upgrade my digital source.

To keep an open mind and see if alternative and cheaper computers can better the U/S, I've tried a VortexBox server, a MacBook Pro running Audirvana and the Bryston BDP-1USB. I've not tried a Mac Mini, but the Absolute Sound tells me that a MacBook is better. And who am I to argue with the Absolute Truth.

I keep coming back to the UnitIServe, as it just does a better job of getting the music across than the other sources (the VortexBox came close though). It entices, captivates, mesmerizes and stones better than anything else I've heard so far.

When I started down the U/S + DAC route, the Canadian Naim distributor explained to me how streaming over Ethernet was technically superior to using the S/PDIF route (something to do with verified packets) and I experimented a bit by inserting a UnitiQute between the UnitiServe and the DAC. I think I slightly preferred things this way, but couldn't stomach using a UnitiQute solely for its' streaming card section ; it seemed a clunky way of doing things.

I pursued the simpler U/S + DAC route, experimenting with digital cables and a linear power supply (I've soured on the latter, or my unit is faulty...) and I'm now at my *retirement village* digital source. It's a flexible solution with no redundancy.

The beauty of the UnitiServe is that it doesn't tie you into an either / or between direct-to-DAC or Ethernet streaming. You can do both. Here, the U/S directly feeds the DAC in my main system, while the UnitiLite picks up the U/S via UPnP over Ethernet, while the mu-so picks up the U/S wirelessly in the kitchen. So I can eat my cake and have it too.

Also, while the UnitiServe is primarily a server, it is also a streamer - at least for internet radio. Now there's a thought : if internet radio stations can be aggregated via a service such as vTuner, could the same not be done for Spotify, Tidal, Deezer, Qobuz, Rickshaw and Klizmer ?

Jan

I connect iMac--> JRiver --> Ethernet --> NDX -->DC1-->Hugo-->SN2.  So its using NDX as ethernet to SPDIF converter only.  Probably too much money for just that function.

Most people who use the nDAC, at least my impression from this forum, also use a [in my opinion] very expensive external power supply to really make best SQ.

If I could start over, I might skip the NDX and buy a Sonore Rendu Ethernet-->SPDIF converter.  Its a small fraction of the NDX's price and has quite a few very good reviews.

Ooops, sorry for failing to recognize this Jan-Erik, and thanks for the update! And my sincere apologies to Naim: you have not stopped providing any information! Best, nbpf

PS Maybe Naim could consider providing a table of the kind compiled by Jan-Erik. It is a very clean and informative summary and a useful guide through a range of products which is otherwise quite difficult to understand.

to the specific question, I tested last summer the U/S + NDAC vs U/S + ND5xs/NDX

the sound quality of the former combination was definitely superior. I also liked the fact that this set up has no redundancy (in the latter set up there is a digi out duplication). I ended up with NDX + NAS as I was not planning to buy too many new CDs and I was confortable with ripping the existing ones and the occasionaly bought new ones with dbPoweramp. The other disadvantage of the U/S+NDAC combo is that it cannot be managed with a remote.

as you can see i built my decision under the basic premise:"I dont need an elaborate solution to rip CDs". I have on the other hand accepted reduncancies as I have the XP5 power supply together with the NDX which brought the cost to similar levels as U/S + NDAC although I still think the NDX+ XP5 combo is not as good as the U/S + NDAC.

But it can, via nServe (on an iDevice or MAC). The only thing missing is volume control. Not a big deal.

You could also go straight from the iMac to the Hugo via optical SPDIF.  Or plug a Meridian Explorer (200 EUR) in one of USB ports of the iMac and connect to the Hugo via optical SPDIF if you think that the optical SPDIF output of the iMac might not be good enough for the Hugo.

Sure, I literally meant "there is no remote control device coming with the NAIM box", of course it can be remotel controlled via apps.

True, there is no remote in the box. Naim offers the Remote Server handset pictured below, which will (with the addition of a monitor) allow complete control of the UnitiServe and volume on a preamp or AV processor.

Thanks for your replies everyone, my internet went down last night so am just catching up on all your comments now that I am at work.

I am keen on the approach recommended by Hungry Halibut of putting the Serve in the same room as the hifi and gradually ripping without the need to go anywhere near a computer so the UServe, DAC route definitely appeals but am obviously concerned that ethernet may yield better results than SPDIF.  Plus there is the issue of the SMPS and, by the sound of things, 3rd party linear supplies are also not without risk.

How would a Mac Mini set up work?  I assume I would need to buy an external NAS and connect via a USB/SPDIF converter or toslink (although new Mac Mini's don't appear to have an optical out anymore).  I guess one of the things that puts me off this route is the thought of using iTunes, as it would remind me of work.

As Jan-Erik says the UnitiServe is a very flexible source that gives you both direct-to-DAC or streaming options.  The only thing missing in the Serve to DAC scenario is Bluetooth and Spotify connect, which the NDX would provide.  Plus there is the SMPS and 'optimised for ethernet' factors to take into consideration.

On paper there are pros and cons to both options although the UServe/DAC combination seems the most suitable one in my circumstances.  I guess only listening for myself will answer the question as to what sounds best to me.

Hi King Size,

The Naim SMPS is filtered so that no RF gunk finds it way into the power lines. The new version of the 3rd party linear-power supply from Israel now uses an SMPS instead of a transformer. My unit doesn't provide sufficient current to allow the U/S to rip discs... most likely a faulty unit.

I've gone back to the Naim PS and (no surprise really) it provides better engagement with the music.

Jan

Thanks Jan-Erik, had not realized that.

Jan, unfortunately this shows a lack of understanding by your dealer (IMO). Ethernet is like a medium transport like a Hardisk. The sampled audio is packaged up and  is encapsulated in several layers, allowing for data recovery, error detection, semding and receiving parts of the data oit of sequence amongst many other things.

This data needs collating and then un packaging and turning into a protocol stream of digital audio sample words sent at a specific frequency dependent on the data  sample rate. This is SPDIF.

Sampled data streams that could be compared to SPDIF are AES/EBU,  I2S and arguably Asynchronous USB.

So Ethernet transport delivery still needs to be converted to a stream and sent as SPDIF, Async USB or I2S (or equivalent) to the DAC or internally to  the DSP/DAC chip. 

Simon

"Optimised for Ethernet" sounds like complete nonsense to me.  How on earth do you optimise a product for Ethernet?  I imagine this is shorthand for "the SPDIF implementation isn't very good".