UnitiServe/DAC or UnitiServe/NDX

Posted by: King Size on 10 February 2015

When Naim first released the UnitiServe and DAC they had no streaming products so the use of the UServe as a hard disk player connected via DC-1 to the DAC appeared to be the the prescribed position.

Since the release of Naim's streamers there seems to be a shift by some on this forum as well as some naim dealers (Signals for eg.), to the UServe/Streamer configuration (connected via ethernet with the Serve taking on the true role of a uPnP Server) as being the better option.

However is recently as last year someone at Naim advised me that UServe/DAC via SPDIF was still the preferred / optimal configuration as far as sound quality goes. This is also the viewpoint shared by my dealer.

This leaves me in a bit of a quandary as I have finally decided to dive into the world of 'streaming' audio and would like to make the UServe the hub of such a system. I'm not into the endless variables that tweaking introduce so would prefer to stay within the naim ecosystem and am also effectively starting from scratch ie. only a small qty of music on my mac and 2,000 odd CD's.

Ideally i'd also like to use this as an opportunity to improve on my digital source (currently a CD5XS), which, while fun, lags behind my analogue front end in terms of refinement. With that in mind i'm looking at the DAC or NDX and will make sure that I listen to both but am keen to know what fellow forum members think. Which way would you go

Any insights would be much appreciated.

Posted on: 11 February 2015 by Jude2012

@ King size,

Re 'how does a Mac work?' - use XLD in your iMac to rip your CDs and then transfer the files over your home network to the Mini (I.e. Wirelessly).

Your Mac mini will be near your DAC with a tos link or USB lead and a power lead. That's all.

For control use the free Apple Remote app.

For housekeeping of the Mini, use Screen Sharing on your iMac.

If you haven't got a CD drive on your iMac, there are plenty of external CD drives available at low cost.

Simples, I.e. No outboard power supply or additional HDD or NAS required.

Jude

Posted on: 12 February 2015 by nbpf

Originally Posted by Noogle:

Originally Posted by King Size

As Jan-Erik says the UnitiServe is a very flexible source that gives you both direct-to-DAC or streaming options. The only thing missing in the Serve to DAC scenario is Bluetooth and Spotify connect, which the NDX would provide. Plus there is the SMPS and 'optimised for ethernet' factors to take into consideration.

"Optimised for Ethernet" sounds like complete nonsense to me. How on earth do you optimise a product for Ethernet? I imagine this is shorthand for "the SPDIF implementation isn't very good".

I do not think the SPDIF implementation in the uServe is poor. The buzzword is meant to push new customers and long-time users towards streaming, a policy that Naim (and Naim dealers) have pursued quite consistently. For most users streaming is unknown territory and going there makes little sense. But getting users on an unknown territory can be a lucrative strategy. It is a perfectly legitimate one as long as the new territory is not a dead end.

Posted on: 12 February 2015 by nbpf

Originally Posted by Jude2012:

Posted on: 12 February 2015 by 40 below

Hi King Size

I had 500 CDs ripped in around 7 days on my Unitiserve a year ago, and am currently running though a DAC / XPS-DR to very good musical effect - although after a lot of optimising. To me the US was a 'do it once, do it right, get it done' proposition for the music collection I loved - your collection is four times the size.

It also provided me a good SPDIF transport initially (Martin Colloms/HiFi Critic rated rather well) and an optimised UPnP server for when I move that way. In the interim a DAC seemed an better and more cost- effective musical source than any streamer below an NDS.

I was a bit concerned about the US product age, Naim's roadmap, and the 'commodity' power supply. The last could be fixed, and the formers I ultimately accepted as 'the tool does the job I need'. Many argue that the same outcomes can be achieved with less expensive commodity components. Its all about personal trade offs.

I went SSD on Murph's advice and have since 'pimped my serve' with an external USB drive/PSU rather than NAS - similar to how the Statement is being demoed. However I think a 2TB HDD would be a straightforward musical option. There have also been DACs on the local website for high 2's.

good luck

Posted on: 12 February 2015 by King Size

Hi 40 below

Thanks for your post, a lot of what you say echoes my thoughts ('do it once, do it right', good SPDIF transport with ability to move to UPnP at a later date; 'the tool does the job I need').

I believe there is a second hand SSD version about to come on the market so am interested in how you run the external USB drive instead of a NAS, as this seems a very neat solution.

Saw a DAC with a 3rd party PS on the local website recently and this prompted me into action as, I clicked as to how a DAC could give my CD player an instant lift while I take time getting a Serve and my network loaded and optimised. In short, the Serve/DAC combination seems to be the ideal gateway for me to transition into the streaming environment. I bailed out of the bidding though as I felt that it was getting a little high and I may as well buy new.

Cheers

Posted on: 13 February 2015 by 40 below

King Size, I run a LaCie d2 2TB drive with a dedicated linear PSU, all music in WAV including ~400 Hi-res batch-converted from FLAC. The external drive sounds significantly better than USB sticks and holds my full collection. You can see further details in my profile.

Its very similar to Murph's demo Statement system in Melbourne, except that uses a modified supercap for his WD USB drive. The new kiwi owner of Statement #001 has same setup and uses a 4TB LaCie P9230 Porsche Design USB drive which looks quite elegant.

The quiet power supply on the USB drive is critical, along with WAV for everything. The underlying Archille's heel of a US as SPDIF server is noise, so doing the least work helps: the USB drive and WAV minimise the work, SSD means there isn't a HDD to power. Downside is that you lose the automatic extra US metadata on the albums, and unless you retag with ID3 can only index by Album & Artist. But it sounds soo much better.

My own experience tracks Martin Colloms' various studies in Hifi Critic - the base US performance level can be lifted by ~ 50% with tweaks, and with a DAC/XPS take you to CDS3 territory or beyond. Yes, its a bit messy, but the results are worth it.

Posted on: 14 February 2015 by Name

Hi 40 below,

How very interesting...I'm a bit out of touch....so the local preference is to use a usb drive rather than a nas. Seems I need to speak to my hifi dealer. So you obviously found the difference to be worth pursuing the usb option?

Posted on: 14 February 2015 by King Size

Thanks 40below. Does the LaCie d2 just connect to the UServe via one of the USB ports at the back of the unit?

Posted on: 14 February 2015 by 40 below

At the time I was trying to 'tame' my system, each extra active component added to the network degraded the music to a point (below the standalone USB flash reference) it felt like a completely lower level of equipment - ie 'ordinary' CDP vs CDS3. NAS and Wifi were the two big culprits, and in retrospect I think they were interacting around a heightened noise-floor. Having them connected deteriorated local USB playback.

I solved the NAS first by eliminating it. Two gains - less background electrical noise, and ethernet transfer also seemed to cause 'common mode' noise which shrinks the music and obscures low-level detail. With a USB drive, separate power is a key and has to be clean power - again to avoid another common-mode noise source.

For wifi, after some good gains with ferrites, recently separated the router by 2m from the upstream switch to mitigate RFI coupling, and powered both from a good quality 300va isolating transformer with electrostatic screen to mitigate any mains / ground noise. Voila, that absolutely nailed it! Voices in harmonies are clearly separated, natural with diction clear. Low end is tuneful and distinct and doesn't congeal in complex passages, transients don't smear. All the fine details and the musical flow seem right. Even the latent background recorded hiss re-emerged with that rightness I remember from vinyl days. Remember people saying 'digital sounds sterile' - I think it's a lot about subtle low-level information that gives the true character being masked.

I'm now at a point where I'll try the remote NAS again...

The USB drive practice for the "OCDers" has been around for a few years now. Some 'want the best' local streaming users are running powered USB drives and Sarum TA ethernet & USB cables, seeing the difference even with UPnP with their NDS and 2 * 555DR. They retired their CD555 for an NDS to achieve better music, whereas other CD555 users still find the old dowager best.

Best digital music seems so much about the overall environment.....

Posted on: 14 February 2015 by 40 below

Sorry, to answer your specific question, my 2TB LaCie d2 connects to a Userve USB port using Chord Silverplus (not expensive, but good) cable. Also has a quiet 12V 2A fully linear power supply.

My drive is formatted FAT32. However US runs Windows CE and others have 4TB drives connected so I suspect an NTFS format drive will also work here under standard CE drivers. When I buy a 2nd drive it will be bigger and I'll check this out.