Tidal into Uniti - Is Sonos connect better than iphone into USB?

Bug Naim to step up and integrate these other services. Or at least announce a plan. I agree, Tidal is far better than Spotify.

For now, the option I'd recommend is an AirPort Express via optical into your Uniti. Then, you can run the apps on your iPad or laptop wirelessly. The airport is $99 in the US and you can also use it as a wifi hub if you no longer need it for audio. You don't need a wired ethernet connection to run the audio out and you have all the flexibility of the apps. Who knows - something new may come along and they you'd need to wait for Sonos to integrate it as well.

I do this into my NDAC and it sounds very good, though not as good as my CD5xs or UPNP streamer for the same resolution content. You're still dealing with AirPlay via your iPad, via wireless, which might have some impact on the sound quality. Hard to tell if its Tidal or that chain.

But again, real answer is for Naim to step up. Add your voice to all of ours here and maybe they'll finally listen - or least acknowledge us and announce a plan.

Thanks for you reply,

i couldnt get get my hands on an airport express but I have an apple TV, and can use that in the same way, and I have borrowed a sonos connect so I am going to do a bake off this weekend to see what comes out top for me,

I completely agree though, Naim need to integrate Tidal but from what I read on here, I think that might take a while. Plus, tidal are making hints about a >cd quality premium service so if I reckon Naim will wait for the service to mature before they do anything. Hope I am wrong though.

Hi, I use an ageing reclocker to connect my Sonos to the NDX (which also reclocks I believe) and then onto the Hugo. Each stage seems improve the depth and transparency of the sounds. Though the end result is not ultimately  as smooth and natural as locally streamed music via the NDX natively... but I suspect using a high stability clocked front end or an eventual Naim front would make the difference between locally and web streamed content minimal if at all detectable.

Simon

I wonder if one of the issues for naim in integrating Tidal is that Tidal have recently announced support for Meridians MQA technology, which'll gives (they say) hi-res capability to Tidal - might the required tie-in with Meridian be a little embarassing/problematic for naim? Linn have integrated Tidal - have they pronounced on MQA?

I'm think about buying a reclocker to put between a Sonos connect and my NDX.  Do you have any experience with currently available options?

Richard, sorry I have no expierience with current reclocking solutions, but there a few out there such as Emperical Audio's Synchro Mesh.

Alan, out of the box it's not bad is it? However I find there are differences that just start to get in the way after a while ( such as textures a little bleached, very compressed recordings sounding a little confused, and finer detail in orchestral recordings lost to a sort of grunge) . Using a reclocker helps to remove those differences by quite a long way.

i agree on the 'Connect' type integration not being the way forward. It's clunky, gets in the way  and feels too legacy - but I suspect here views will be divided. The connect type integration can offer other services and benefits from the streamer service provider... I say fine.. But I simply want the music with my Naim, the other stuff I can do elsewhere if I want.

Simon

Allen I dont think so.. The Sonos for the vast majority for lossless and lossy is fine as it is... They even have their own fan-boyz vociferously proclaiming the Sonos digital and audio interfaces are as good as anyone can need....

Therefore the niche market that is the 'ultra hifi' market which is I guess where we fit in is catered for by third party modifications or solutions.

Hi Allen

google itemaudio, looks interesting..

have a good Sunday

Allen, yes in theory yes. However try it and you might notice an improvement.. Why is this?.. Well most likely one contributing element is system cross talk. Although great effort is made to decouple sub systems, most engineers who have studied systems theory will tell you functions produce by products. Where we don't want these by products, these by products are ideally mitigated to below the noise floor. However if you have a very low noise floor to start with this can be difficult and makes decoupling more critical.

The process of reclocking a source with a jittery clock will in many cases  produce by products of sums and diffferences between the frequencies at a given time. This unharmonic distortion or artefacts, albeit at at tiny levels will modulate or otherwise interact with other circuitry.

By using seperate devices with seperate powersupplies and galvanically isolated grounds with a good air gap between them one is helping the effectiveness of the component function decoupling. 

I am guessing this reason is why Naim advocates generally using seperate  components in its top end components.

Now if the clock was highly stable to start with then there are less artefacts produced.. and so less decoupling can be more effective at mitigating what there is to below the noise floor..

I believe it is similar cross talk related matters that affect our preference for WAV or FLAC decoding, noise from Ethernet leads and RFI mitigations.

Hopefully my view has helped here 

Simon

thanks Simon

so in theory, for a W4S modded Connect, is it better to run it into NDX connected to nDac.....or better to go straight to nDac.....

When it arrives I will experiment, however any thoughts greatly appreciated...

Have a good Sunday

Allen, I was looking at the Auralic Aries yesterday and what its capable of.  Made me think of you at the time because it appears to be capable, with its new firmware update, to do almost everything that I have seen you raise in the past. May be worth having a look at

I have been looking at that device too.. It certainly looks interesting.. would be interesting to hear about it's usability from a user who is also familiar with Sonos. 

I do womder with this recent BBC debacle with web radio streaming whether it's unfair to expect Naim to support these different streaming formats.. And a seperate more powerful and flexible from a computing point of view  front end integrator may be the way forward..

Simon

I think it has to be Simon. Just looking at the technical specifications show its a completely different type of device to Naim's network streamers which makes it much more flexible and responsive to external changes, plus there is no dac which allows you to upgrade as that market develops. I'd love Naim to do something similar but if I can find a local dealer when I'm ready to update my source I intend having a listen to see how it sounds paired with my Hugo

Dayjay .. I am in exactly the same position 

if you find a unit to demo do share your experiences .. Obviously played thru your Naim amp so you can share here 

My Naim amp is going nowhere Simon, I like it very much and I can't imagine replacing it with anything other than another Naim amp of some description. I like Naim sq and build quality and if I only wanted a network streamer then an NDX or NDS would be perfect but I am intrigued by the idea of a device similar to the Aries in an area that is moving so quickly that I can't see how Naim can keep up with its current streaming solutions - that's not a criticism because those products were marketed as something different anyway and I wonder if we are expecting them to make a square peg fit a round hole.  If I get to listen to one I'll share on here, would be grateful if you could do the same. 

I cannot agree with this. When the issue came up on the Linn forums their engineer made a posting stating they were aware of the change and would be working on a solution. Many customers applauded their quick, positive, and public response. 

It was issues like this which factored into my decision when I made the move from my CD555 to streaming. The choices were the newly released NDS (I already had a 555PS) or the new KDS/1. I went the Linn route.  I have enjoyed AirPlay type streaming for the last 3 years (yet another reason I did not purchase a UnitiQute for a second room) and have enjoyed TIDAL uncompressed since December.  A BBC fix has been announced and is being worked on (not that important for moi as I am Stateside). 

Things are rapidly changing and my KDS is keeping up. It would not have been the same had I gone in the other direction three years ago.  One would have hoped that the continual jumping of ship would have Naim open their eyes. Unfortunately the newly announced pre/streamer touts Bluetooth and Spotify Connect - hardly Hi Fi quality - as premium features. A new product launch which does not make mention of at least ONE of the uncompressed full CD quality streaming services currently on the market should be cause for concern. If I was looking to purchase a new streamer in 2015 the absence of any of there currently available services would be an immediate reason to remove this product from my consideration. 

Allen and Simon. I attended a Music Matters event at a major AV seller in NC. The North America sales manager was present and I asked him SONOS's plans for a hi-res/hi-fi product and he indicated not anytime soon if at all. SONOS is emphatic about making sure the product works all the time with the network to date within the product family. He stated they consider hi-res as a specialty niche and most who would be into this already have a special set up for this. The owner of this store has also apparently meet with SONOS and many of the upper end re-sellers have pressed them for a more hi-fi version to no avail. I personally like the Naim App as it adds customizability to the NDX. The SONOS interface is most excellent and has progressed through the years. I've had my Connect since 2011.

Based on Simon's posts I ran the Connect via NDX optical and coax (NDX analog to SN2) and it sounds excellent. Not as good as my US ripped vix NDX but easily listenable for hours on end either US ripped or Deezer lossless. When I added the NDAC back in via NDX it sounded a little better. According to the naim literature the NDX recollects via buffer same as NDAC. Finally, I'm strongly considering nixing the US  and going the DB Poweramp route.

Next month Chord 2Qute will be available in the USA so i will try it. I recently listed to a PS Audio Directstream at a friends house which plays direct DSD and or converts PCM to DSD. Really excellent captivating sound especially on well mastered content and as usual will expose crap when fed it. It used the programmable chip like the Chord products but has no streaming service integration that I'm aware of. Sorry, got off topic there but head spinning pace in the audio world currently.

The 'Remedy Reclocker' in available in the UK circa £400 and I toyed with getting one and seeing if it either supplements the NDX reclocking into Hugo or....Makes the NDX obsolete in my set-up.

I'm resting on the idea to see what comes out of 'The Bristol Announcement'.

G

Wyred 4 Sound makes a re-clocker called Remedy.....I think it looks interesting. The problem with it is that I dont think that it can be upgraded with a seperate powersupply. The Synchro Mesh is probably a better solution but also much more expensive if bought with seperate powersupply.

I was actually thinking of buying one, but after I read Simons post about the NDX also doing re-clocking (and galvaniced) I tried to connect an Apple TV to my ND5xs Streaming WIMP. It sounded very good and probably good enough as a temporary solution until Naim comes up with support for a cd streaming service. For many month now I have been connecting the Apple tv directly to a seperate dac and that sounded not so good to say it kindly. So thankyou Simon. You just made me an even more happy Naim owner.

I am also Reading a lot about this subject because I want a very good cd streaming service solution (within some budget constraints). Tidal will come to Denmark within a few month but for now Wimp is also good but the library is not as large as Tideal.

Awaiting delivery of a W4S modded Sonos Connect...interesting to see how it complements, or possibly replaces the NDX....or not...

looking forward to the comparison/outcome... 

BR

I look forward to hearing how you get on.

G

+1.

I'm pretty much trying to decide if I go with a different platform/company or if I double down on my Naim investment with a NAP 250, and either upgrade my Sonos Connect or invest in something like the Auralic Aries.

amaden, interesting to hear your views.. Just remind us.. Do you have or have had a standard Sonos already?

Nope - you can fix the dig output at an upsampled rate but the limitation is the Sonos platform. Shame 

Have you had the opportunity too hear the Aries Greg?