Led Zeppelin - Physical Graffiti LP - Sounds Awful!
Posted by: Dreadatthecontrols on 02 March 2015
I bought a vinyl copy of Physical Graffiti 40th Anniversary remastered by Jimmy Page at the weekend, what a waste of money. I wasn't interested in the bells and whistles version and bough the regular album re-issue.
1 - It is not 180g as advertised
2 - The sleeves are flimsy and cheap
3 - Side 2 is pressed off centre
4 - The remastering/analogue transfer to vinyl is dreadful, to my ears it sounds tinny, harsh and dynamically compressed and totally devoid of bass.
Very disappointing as the other re-issues in this series to date have been quite good.
Beware!
There is such a lot of emotional nonsense attached to the Zep remasters. I suppose it is because we have all loved them since we were kids, know the records inside out, and are super familiar with the pressings we've heard for 40 years.
Add to that the explosive issue of analogue vs digital and we have a topic as hot as a very hot thing.
Then add into the mix a lot of us are getting old and cantankerous. You know who you are! Don't fight it, I am too!
Jimmy Page didn't do the remasters, John Davis from Metropolis did them. Jimmy may have been present from time to time. Or not. Yes he's 'owned' them.
I've only compared the vinyl issues. Mostly they are really very good. They differ from the originals, and in many ways for the better. I do think PG is the least good so far. It's cut a bit too hot for my taste, but it still has more detail than the original. Regarding the other four, I have a mix of UK plum originals and Classic Records to compare, and the new masters stack up really well. The new II and III are go to copies for me.
I'm not interested in stoking the hot fire on this. The reason I post is solely because there may be folks who are dissuaded from getting these new Zep records because of flat assertions from some that they are pants.
That would be a shame because its not true.
They are certainly better than any of the orange/green mid 70s issues, and in some instances better than original pressings.
Depending on what you are listening for.
Depending on what you are listening for.
I am listening for the music! cant find it!
David Fricke of Rolling Stone magazine gave the deluxe edition of PG five of five stars. Interestingly, he made no mention of SQ, only spoke in terms of the historical context of the album and the bonus tracks.
I think the real question here and for other historical albums is do we really want guys with 70-something year-old ears doing the remastering, especially with ears subjected to hundreds of raucous rock concerts and studio recordings over the years when hearing protection was not a consideration? Jimmy ought to give up the torch and find someone with hearing to do the remastering.
I personally have not heard the latest LZ remasters, but have no desire to after hearing Page's work on Mothership.
This, quite frankly, is complete and utter bollocks. I don't know why there is this presumption that Page is deaf. He most certainly is not. I haven't spoken to him about this myself, but one of my hack friends has, and in great detail, and the reason why these remasters are the way they are is because that is the way Page (who, as we all know, is something of a control freak) wants them presented, for better or worse. It's the result of a conscious decision on his part. He wants his legacy to be "future proofed" for the mainstream listener in the sense that they can be presented in a variety of ways across different devices - he has seen the way the world is going (again, for better or for worse). It is unlikely that he will return to them again.
If anyone thinks that Jimmy Page is going to turn his life's work over to someone else while he is still alive is seriously deluded.
That said, Mothership (and Celebration Day) does sound awful. Interestingly, it is fairly well-known in Zeppelin circles that it was a rush job at the height of the loudness wars, initiated by the record company to cash in on the 02 gig; Page, uncharacteristically, was not that involved.
Well if JP wants to present his work to sound crap, that's very sad
David Fricke of Rolling Stone magazine gave the deluxe edition of PG five of five stars. Interestingly, he made no mention of SQ, only spoke in terms of the historical context of the album and the bonus tracks.
I think the real question here and for other historical albums is do we really want guys with 70-something year-old ears doing the remastering, especially with ears subjected to hundreds of raucous rock concerts and studio recordings over the years when hearing protection was not a consideration? Jimmy ought to give up the torch and find someone with hearing to do the remastering.
I personally have not heard the latest LZ remasters, but have no desire to after hearing Page's work on Mothership.
This, quite frankly, is complete and utter bollocks. I don't know why there is this presumption that Page is deaf. He most certainly is not. I haven't spoken to him about this myself, but one of my hack friends has, and in great detail, and the reason why these remasters are the way they are is because that is the way Page (who, as we all know, is something of a control freak) wants them presented, for better or worse. It's the result of a conscious decision on his part. He wants his legacy to be "future proofed" for the mainstream listener in the sense that they can be presented in a variety of ways across different devices - he has seen the way the world is going (again, for better or for worse). It is unlikely that he will return to them again.
If anyone thinks that Jimmy Page is going to turn his life's work over to someone else while he is still alive is seriously deluded.
That said, Mothership (and Celebration Day) does sound awful. Interestingly, it is fairly well-known in Zeppelin circles that it was a rush job at the height of the loudness wars, initiated by the record company to cash in on the 02 gig; Page, uncharacteristically, was not that involved.
Kevin,
I made no mention of Page being deaf, seems a leap on your part. My posit is not utter bollocks, but a matter of physiological reality; hearing degrades with age and more so with exposure to loudness. Having not heard the remaster of PG in question obliges me to aquiesce on the present topic, but any words your hack friend may have had with JP does not make you better qualified to comment on the SQ in question than anyone else here. If JP is intent on a legacy targeting the MP3 market, he's likely hitting the mark with recent work. Old timers will have their original vinyl and newbies will have the latest remasters. Perhaps us old timers are remiss if expecting a reinvention of the wheel.
Should audiophiles not try to show that there is a better and more rewarding way to present and hear music and not accept an industry race to the bottom in terms of SQ?
Well if JP wants to present his work to sound crap, that's very sad
I'm sure he's not presenting his work to sound "crap', I think he is just presenting it in a way that he feels will work best across the widest possible number of media. Whether or not you or I think it sounds terrible matters to you/us but is neither here nor there.
There's no real absolute "objective" measure or standard of "audiophile" sound. I think PG is the worst sounding of the LZ reissues so far, but I don't think it sounds that bad. Certainly not in the Mothership or Celebration Day class. They really are awful.
Should audiophiles not try to show that there is a better and more rewarding way to present and hear music and not accept an industry race to the bottom in terms of SQ?
Only if you think there is a self-appointed priesthood of "audiophiles" whose job it is to point these things out.
That said, I agree that there should always be a push for higher standards and for value for money - apart from the arguments over mastering or sound quality, I think that the standard (presentation, pressing etc) of these LZ reissues is actually very good.
Have you actually been to a rock concert Kevin? I used to go a few times a month many years ago - I was only in the audience and it was usually two days before my ears stopped ringing. I would be absolutely amazed if Page's hearing was not impaired to a significant degree.
Funnily enough I have! I went to my first gig (Pink Floyd at the Empire Pool, Wembley) when I was 14 (I'm 52 now), and have been to about 3,000 shows (not all of them rock admittedly) in total since. Some of them - Swans, Sunn 0))), My Bloody Valentine, Throbbing Gristle, Einsturzende Neubauten, Sonic Youth, Big Black, Motorhead etc - have been incredibly loud; I've never had ringing ears after any of them, except, rather oddly, after a Prince gig in 1988.
Different strokes for different folks maybe?
Was that the animals tour? That was my second gig. Bowie StationToStation was my first and that was really loud. My ears were ringing for a good few hours afterwards and I was about as far from the speakers as possible!!
I remember I could not hear on the way to the train station after the * I think* BTO or KISS (one or the other), for about 45 min. It might have been my very first loud rock concert but odd thing that I didn't think i was that loud but I was pretty close to the band. :/ Certainly my ears did not hurt. But it was a strange feeling with all the sound coming from afar with a slight ringing in my ears.
In Chicago, I believe, there is a health law now in place that all concert venue owners are obligated to pass out ear plugs to the attendees at the concert.
Well if JP wants to present his work to sound crap, that's very sad
I'm sure he's not presenting his work to sound "crap', I think he is just presenting it in a way that he feels will work best across the widest possible number of media. Whether or not you or I think it sounds terrible matters to you/us but is neither here nor there.
There's no real absolute "objective" measure or standard of "audiophile" sound. I think PG is the worst sounding of the LZ reissues so far, but I don't think it sounds that bad. Certainly not in the Mothership or Celebration Day class. They really are awful.
I was listening to some random tunes the other day. Following some decent jazz and electronica Down by the Seaside popped up. In contrast it really did sound awful - as if someone had disconnected the woofers in my speakers.
The only way that recording could be listened to without cringing would be on a really rolled off old school system.
It makes perfect sense.
Most poeple do not have any proper hifi anymore. More than likely it's been listened to in a car or via those awful earbuds via iphones.
When I used to work on commercials, for audio, we'll listen to the tunes via good monitor first then put it through on 'SLM' ( shitty little monitors ) to emulate TV speakers. Then the engineer applies the EQ accordingly.
I've a feeling that the standard today has fallen below that.
I remember I could not hear on the way to the train station after the * I think* BTO or KISS (one or the other), for about 45 min. It might have been my very first loud rock concert but odd thing that I didn't think i was that loud but I was pretty close to the band. :/ Certainly my ears did not hurt. But it was a strange feeling with all the sound coming from afar with a slight ringing in my ears.
In Chicago, I believe, there is a health law now in place that all concert venue owners are obligated to pass out ear plugs to the attendees at the concert.
The loudest concert I attended, which was also the loudest ever recorded at Wembley Arena, was, believe or not, Neil Young during the Trans tour in the '80s.
I attended a Ted Nugent concert in the 70’s, afterwards I went to my bike and kicked started it, it didn’t start. Kicked it over again and my foot shot to the floor with no resistance at all. The engine was running but I couldn’t hear a thing. I was so disorientated I got lost on the way home.
A few years ago I had to put paper tissue in my ears during a Styx performance, (they where supporting Deep Purple) although to be honest high volume wasn’t the reason.
I attended a Ted Nugent concert in the 70’s, afterwards I went to my bike and kicked started it, it didn’t start. Kicked it over again and my foot shot to the floor with no resistance at all. The engine was running but I couldn’t hear a thing. I was so disorientated I got lost on the way home.
A few years ago I had to put paper tissue in my ears during a Styx performance, (they where supporting Deep Purple) although to be honest high volume wasn’t the reason.
I also remember attending a Ted Nugent concert at our college back in the 70's. The Nuge climbed up on to one of the speakers and hit a really loud high note (feedback) on his guitar. The maniac held it there for what felt like hours until people began to leave the hall with their fingers in their ears.
Once saw Quo on a Monday night, hearing returned, ie ringing stopped on Thursday.
Led Zep Earls Court 75 - ended at the First Aid Tent with blood coming from my right ear!
Led Zeppelin were so loud at Earls Court that it took a while for your ears to adjust to the volume.
One of the loudest for me was related to Led Zep in a way as it was Robert Plant and The Sensational Space Shifters, or was it with The Strange Sensation, a few years back in Liverpool when we were stood right at the front against the crash barriers in front of the lead guitarist.
Robert kept saying turn it up and the lead guitarist thrased a load chord and it felt like my skull had split in half!
I wondered why the couple next to me came with ear plugs!
It was loud but a great gig.
Richard
P.s. in the old days when PAs were not so good it was quite common to have ear ringing afterwards but I suspect that was down to distortion rather than volume?
Was that the animals tour? That was my second gig. Bowie StationToStation was my first and that was really loud. My ears were ringing for a good few hours afterwards and I was about as far from the speakers as possible!!
Yes Premmy it was. Of all the tours I wish I'd seen but never dod, Bowie's 1976 "Isolar" tour was the one at the top of my wishlist. Ringing ears aside, I take it you enjoyed the gig?
P.s. in the old days when PAs were not so good it was quite common to have ear ringing afterwards but I suspect that was down to distortion rather than volume?
I think that's a good point Richard. One of the loudest gigs I ever witnessed was the Floyd doing The Wall at Earls Court in August 1980. My hearing was completely unaffected because the sound was so crystalline (in fact possibly the best sound I've ever heard at a concert - 64-channel quad with subwoofers under the seats; James Guthrie's mixing area was vast).
The Prince show I mentioned earlier wasn't that loud, but the sound was distorted and way too trebly - hence ringing ear syndrome afterwards.
I have all of the LZ remasters as HD downloads. I - IV and Houses of the Holy sound quite good to me.
PG sounds quite crap to me. I don't know what went wrong with PG, as really the others do sound quite good. I have, however, not lost my Barry Diament versions. They are worth saving.
Was that the animals tour? That was my second gig. Bowie StationToStation was my first and that was really loud. My ears were ringing for a good few hours afterwards and I was about as far from the speakers as possible!!
Yes Premmy it was. Of all the tours I wish I'd seen but never dod, Bowie's 1976 "Isolar" tour was the one at the top of my wishlist. Ringing ears aside, I take it you enjoyed the gig?
Yes Kevin. Never Seen a better gig. I was a huge Bowie fan too young to have seen Ziggy so the excitement of The Dukes return to the UK was immense. I used to live near Wembley and was lucky to see Floyd as it was sold out but a couple of days before the gig they released some restricted view tickets. A mate bunked off school to queue up for these tickets and managed to bag 4. Good old days!!
Just stumbled across this
HOW MUSCICIANS ARE DESTROYING MUSIC
http://www.oganhodosom.pt/BLOG...14/7/17_Entry_1.html
FWIW I bought I and III and they sounds very good to me. PG not so much in any form (CD/Streaming/Download). But I have the Japanese Original Vinyl of PG and that pressing is VERY good and enjoyable.