General election 2015

Class division? They start talking like this when money is getting fewer and fewer......

I don't know.. but something is about to go BANG !! 

You can feel it...

I feel it. It's bound to bang. Wish i could only pack and move......

Hi Gianluigi,

I live in a place where the waning full moon affects the many and boy they are out in full force. I'm not even sure if we are building up to another blood moon. (forth and last Lunar eclipse in a row) lunatic?

I don't know what to think of this new Land party, they seem to say all the right things but then again don't they all? and with a name like Deek? (Dick?) obviously a wind up.

I've never voted in my life so therefore I feel I have the right to complain (sort of) I mean if you elect 'not select' whoever in power and they don't deliver then surely you have no right to complain as you voted them in, right?

I think they(we) should bring out a SEA party; that way we could all live on boats as a collective and if things were to go awry we could up anchor and sail off somewhere else or join the new land party if you so wished.

I'm just trying to add a bit of humour in all this as I cannot believe people are still buying all this nonsense. We have weeks of all this twaddle and mud slinging coming our way to draw the people in (they have run out of ideas in Eastenders) and keep everyone entertained. No doubt the Banksters will be there ready too, ready to seize their next opportunity and yet everyone will still heard in like cattle.

Is it me or has this world become completely deranged?

Still... I hope there will be a much more positive outcome out of all this but I will not be holding my breath for too long.

Power to the people that's what I say...mmm now where is that John Lennon album I've got tucked away somewhere...

Peace & love man 

Seems they're having a falling back to a kind of primitive state. I could write for hours but Richard is right and fair when he says this is an hi-fi forum. The only things i want to say is that living here is humiliating and i hope to leave as soon i'll be able to.

Yup, that is why I've tried to keep it humour intended.

I respect the forum and don't want to get all seriously political as it will descend into a blood bath, no good.

I do know some of what is going on in your part of the world and feel for you, mind you, it seems to be happening everywhere if truth be told but that's another story.

Hopefully some positivity will come. I'm finding studying Syncretism a very big help and have managed to do a lot of looking within and getting to know thyself, it is really helping to deal with a lot of what is happening but that too is also for another time & place.

Much peace & love brother  

The subject of the NHS is going to be pretty central to this election, and the subject of GP services in particular is a very clear battleground.

What saddens/annoys (but does not surprise) is that the policy announcements in this area of the larger parties are almost total fantasy. They are unworkable, fundamentally dishonest and have been compiled purely to garner votes rather than based on consultation, evidence or even basic common sense.

If that is what they are talking about concerning a subject that I know well, how on earth could I believe a shred of the rest they talk about!

I've generally been politically interested, and I've also always assumed that the majority of politicians (or every hue) are basically intelligent, well-meaning and diligent. It is easy and lazy to be cynical but actually I really do wonder at the political class now.

bruce

What is astonishing is that the supporters of NHS have never shown to the British public what simple day to day hospital procedures actually would cost if the same person who is receiving the treatment would have to pay privately.  If these medical comparison figures were published in the tabloids then a lot more people would realize how lucky they were to live in a country with NHS.  Of course there are issues with NHS but the alternative cost for private medicine would deter a lot of low to middle income persons.

The issue for me is a lack of central government honesty about the NHS.

We cannot continue to afford a totally free system where everyone gets everything and also talk about cuts and austerity. Accepting all sorts of savings can be made, and we can do things more efficiently there is going to be a huge funding gap. Even the most bullish estimates of efficiency savings talk about billions that we will be short in future. Every western economy is looking at the same.

Central govt needs to say to the people-if you still want this kind of service you are going to have to pay more. Or it needs to say we are going to start explicitly reducing the service/treatments (and expectations). Various administrations have failed to do this, or indeed failed to be bold enough to ask people to pay more tax. They have also tended to sideline rationing decisions to levels of the NHS-making it 'our' fault not theirs.

This is not a party political issue for me, its is the failure to have a long term national non-ideological policy about the NHS and how we are going to develop and sustain it. Take the politics out.

Bruce

Whatever happens we should keep the NHS (hopefully in a more realistic improved form) for once it goes it will never return...

But what NHS do you want? The needs and demands of the population change. The possibilities of healthcare change. The NHS has to change and adapt-as it has always done. My point is that people need to decide what they want and understand what that will cost the country. Then they need to agree they want it. Many of the people who man the barricades 'saving the NHS' will also decline to pay extra income tax for the NHS when asked. That is unrealistic.

It is a system worth fighting for, I think also worth paying for. Politicians need to be honest about what that takes though.

Bruce

I would tax the private sector £1M a year for every Consultant level NHS trained doctor they use in normal working hours Monday to Friday, when that doctor could be doing an NHS clinic, and not using their spare time/a day off/holiday. Maybe £0.75M a year for each Midwife and at least £0.5M for every nurse? That would be a start. 

Hmmm. But shouldn't the same principle apply to all those many doctors and nurses the NHS attracts who have done their training in third world countries who public services are significantly more impoverished than the UK's, Harry? Does the NHS recompense those countries? No.   

Agreed. I don't object to a private sector but it is draining the life blood out of the NHS, not supporting it. But I'm just venting and riding a narrow scope hobby horse. I have reached an age where it has become apparent that little fundamentally changes past taxation, benefits and the NHS whenever a government changes sides. It's mostly meaningless guff and the trends aren't all that affected.

If only our politicians could bring themselves to this sort of sensible discussion, not only regarding the NHS but education, home security, infrastructure and defence etc.

But politics today is about staying in power with a decent salary and business connections. Seeking a mandate to do what's best for the majority of us without totally demoralising significant minorities, isn't on the political agenda.

And based on recent "Question Time" audiences, I don't think the average man on the Clapham Omnibus is any more concerned than a politician - he's only going to vote for what's in it for him - ie a "free NHS service" that "somebody else" has paid for.

It is not just about how the money comes in but also how it is spent. This is what successive governments are not really facing.

We already make these decisions at local level, and to a degree nationally too. Do we pay for IVF treatment, and how many cycles per couple? Do we pay for a new heart drug that is 10% more likely to prolong life than existing therapies but 50% more expensive? Do we give it to 50 year olds...80yr olds?. What about plastic surgery to fix a child who has sticking out ears? At what level of obesity should we offer obesity surgery?

A wider challenge is to ask how we make these decisions in the future. We have held public forums as a CCG asking these very questions, asking the public to prioritise the treatments we should pay for as a CCG. Generally anything to do with cancer gets priority, IVF gets very low emphasis but then the groups with whom we consult never represent the whole age and social spectrum of our community.

This is the stuff that requires brave and honest political leadership, not just a discussion about where to set the budget.

Bruce

Whilst I appreciate the point in principle, the reality is rather more nuanced. Private providers now deliver care to lots of NHS patients. In our area for example we would not have capacity within the NHS for elective orthopaedics without this. We are also required to give patients a choice of provider, and private hospitals are allowed to be providers on the menu. The cost to the CCG is capped at the same level as if it were in an NHS hospital, but the money flows into the private sector and into private income for the surgeons. Yet this is an NHS treatment being delivered. (This pattern of care was created by Blair by the way before people howl at the Conservative privatisation of the NHS!). So you could argue that destroying the private sector with punitive taxation would actually very much harm the NHS directly, and expose severe lack of capacity (at least in the short term). It would also curtail patient choice.

Not quite as black and white really!

Bruce

There is a significant difference between Private Health Care on the one hand, and NHS Health Care delivered in whole or in part by the Private Sector.

Its the same with (for example) refuse disposal. That is a community funded operation (for the most part). It used to be delivered by the Local Authority using Direct Labour. Now, it is frequently delivered by the Local Authority using contracted Private Sector equipment and labour. I presume this is because the "Accountants" have carefully analysed the situation and found this to be a far more effective and efficient way to deal with refuse.

Naively, I likewise presume the same "Accountants" are advising on the NHS.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am NOT having a pop at the NHS. I think we have a far better arrangement in principle with the NHS than any private health system. But we do need to be clear about how much we want to spend, and what we want to spend it on. We also need to be clear about the most effect and efficient way of delivering our chosen service.

It appears the NHS have started on its own initiative the 'five year improvement plan' which I welcome that something is being done to improve the service.  I think somewhere in the murky business of politics the government had told the NHS (off the record) to get their act together and NHS have agreed hence the reason for their own improvement measures.

A very narrow minded statement Harry. I'm a Consultant on the old contract and do nearly twice as many hours within the NHS than I am contracted for, as do many on the new contract. I have no guilt for the time spent in the private sector. The state of the NHS has bugger all to do with the private sector but everything to do with the rapidly rising population and increased patient expectation causing a demand that is increasingly disproportionate to the resources available.