Are my nuts too big?

Nice answer!

KC...I think I will try slightly smaller nuts. It may even sound better, and look less intrusive. Is the term 'tempered glass', the same in the States, as in the UK. We have toughened, and tempered. Both are completely different.

The blue tack...is it under the glass, (between the wood and the glass) or on the top?

In the US what we call Toughened, they call Tempered.

In the UK we tend to use tempered to mean annealed.

Annealing involves heating to a high temperature, (in the case of steel, above the recrystallization temperature) and cooling slowly in the furnace or kiln.

Tempering involved heating to a lower temperature and quenching,

What are your nuts made from, chromium plated brass or stainless steel.

Material choice could be vitally important.

In fact Naim claim martensitic stainless steel cones sound better than austenitic stainless steel, although I don't believe them.

Anybody tried "White Tack"

FC...Hopefully my nuts are made of the same stuff as the rest of you guys!

The serious answer though, they're definitely not stainless steel, despite my comment above. Reason being, when I compared them in the store, the stainless steel one's had a slight flat top, which is no good. so not 100% sure what they are made of.

What about Plasticine? It comes in loads of colours!

why not try 3 Nordost Pulser points instead. You could try them in same situ with or without their little top parts on the glass. I used these with granite shelfs and found they performed better without the top cup. They look nice too with a dome shape going into a pointy tip - more Hifi than shedfi.

The bluetack is between the wood and the glass. My nuts are shiny and stainless steel by the look of them.

So what is the point of the dome nuts then if the glass is sitting on Blue-Tac?

I must have misread a previous thread. Is Thorpe blue- tac meant to sit on the top of the glass?

Mine are BZP mild steel (unmarked, but they're cold worked, so probably 5.8)

Why don't you believe the statement about martensitic steel?  Martensite is appreciably harder then austenite, particularly in some higher carbon alloys such as 440c.  This will increase the acoustic discontinuity between the steel and the glass.

Huge...Please could you clarify the blue tack's exact location?

Cheers  

Still in the packet - my glass system works best with no damping!

Cheers Huge.

Cock and bull story, due to fact people in humid countries complaining their chips corrode. (316/304 have better corrosion resistance than 414)

Martensitic stainless steel and austenitic stainless are of similar hardness in annealed or rolled form. High carbon Martensitic stainless steel can be hardened greatly, are you suggesting Naim use heat treated high carbon martensitic stainless steel in the manufacture of cones/chips.

Have you not considered having you nuts case hardened.

I believe they use hardened martensitic stainless ball bearings (ball bearings normally are hardened!).

Incidentally you normally have to heat treat and quench to get high levels of martensite, (because otherwise the residual austenite increases on cooling).  A 'martensitic' steel if annealed will actually contain more ferrite and austenite than martensite.

I can see why they'd use martensitic stainless ball bearings in an application where a ball bearing is required, they are readily available off the shelf, for the cost of a peanut. With the added bonus they have better sonic properties than any other metal.

But. I didn't realise they machined chips and cones from ball bearings, that must be a ball ache, no wonder they're not actually cheap as chips.

If only I could remember where I stored my TTT Diagrams

Hi fatcat,

Sorry I misunderstood:  The thread was referring to dome nuts used as an analogue of the cups and balls used to support the glass in the Fraim, not to Fraim Chips or spikes; so that's what I assumed was being discussed.

I don't know what they use for the Fraim Chips and spikes.  If they do use a martensitic steel, I'd still expect them to be heat treated and quenched though.  In bulk, it doesn't add that much to the manufacturing cost (and the Naim parts aren't cheap to buy!)

These are my latest nuts! I couldn't get any M8's, so I got the M6's. Personally, I think they look less intrusive than the M10's. Also, the new 10mm tinted glass looks better than the 8mm clear. The sound? Can't say I can hear any difference between the two types of nuts and glass, but there is a definite, subtle improvement over the bare wooden shelves.

I'm not surprised it sounds better in the top illustration, there's no cables connected in the lower one!

When I had a Target stand I dispensed with the 'wood' shelf and put the glass right onto the stand (which had spike-like supports for the wood shelf).  It was 10mm glass like yours Meerkat.

The principle was taken from the Audiotech shelf design which has a very hard shelf material, not that fibreboard stuff that Target used.

Now you've got 2 pieces of glass, I'd be trying one sitting right on the Target stand and the other on top of that with your nuts in between !!

Love it! Nice one Huge!!  

I was wondering why I got sweet FA out of the ND5! 

On a more serious note...Are your M10's as large as my M10's. From what I remember of your photo, they weren't?

Roger...The only shelf on this particular Target rack, that has spikes, is the top one. The others just sit on little flanges located in each corner. The glass would be too small to sit on the top one. Yea, I could buy larger glass, but this then pushes the price up to the point, where I may as well buy, or put the money towards a new rack.

What is it with these Target racks? They're built like a brick s*** house. I have had this for nearly 25 years, and used to stand on it, to paint the ceiling. It just won't die!! 

My nuts are 17mm AF, 17mm high.

Correction Roger, the glass will fit. However, I am given to understand, after chatting to the Naim guy (at the Bristol show) that helped design Fraim, the wood and glass option came out top, over all other configurations. I'll give it a go and see what happens. I was going to relegate the 8mm glass to the kitchen as a chopping board!