Now CD less...

Nobody is legally allowed to receive stolen goods let alone retail them.

ATB from George

(Nearly) everybody does. Cash in hand with no invoice, exceeding the posted speed limit, stealing music...... it's a long list. But it's OK if I do it.  My views outrank case law, and in any event, the law should only be rigidly applied to everybody else.

Dear Harry,

A good test is to consider what would happen if everybody did it.

Anarchy. 

There are rules against the things that damage the society we live in. Murder is an obvious case. If everyone did commit the murder of the people they had reason to dislike then anarchy would soon follow.

One should not cherry pick the rules and laws one does not agree with [or cannot be bothered to follow as a personal convenience] ...

ATB from George

I buy quite a few CDs secondhand from charity shops, Amazon marketplace sellers etc. As I understand it, none of the money I give the seller for these goes to the original artist. According to many of the arguments I've just read above, it seems that I should not have the right to rip them, yet (again, as I understand it), I do. Where does that leave all the arguments about musicians being left out of pocket?

Mark

George,

Anyone is allowed to retail goods which they;

a) don't know to be stolen

b) have no reason to suspect might be stolen

If someone donates goods to charity, the probability they are stolen is almost zero.  At least since the days of Robin Hood.....

The way I see it, and this is not intended as a defence for stealing music (which I don't condone, and I know you'll all now retort that's exactly what I've done), is if I give (I say 'give', free) the CDs to a charity shop and then they sell them for a quid each to someone else, this adds nothing to the coffers of the record company or the artist. It makes no odds if I delete any rips I might have of them or not.

Any royalties are only paid on the original purchase.

I can see a very valid (bust suspect) argument here for making it illegal to ever resell any recording or even a paper back book since that might, potentially, dissuade the buyer from ever buying an original issue and hence paying a royalty. Though I think the chances of anyone even being able to buy an original copy of 'Hits of the 80s' a bit unlikely.

It makes no odds if I delete any rips I might have of them or not.

It makes all the difference.

ATB from George

George,

I think Steve's point is not a legal one, he is saying it makes no difference to the artist.  Which is correct, it doesn't.

Where it does (arguably) make a difference is in the consumer behaviour it incentivises - or not.  In the extreme case someone may buy a CD today, rip it tomorrow, and sell it on again the day after -  for little or no net cost to themselves.  Such en masse practice would starve the artist of royalties, and it is that which the clumsy & cumbersome law is trying (but failing) to address.

However, when one thinks about the potential utility value of a large CD collection stored in a box (for no other good reason than people are scared to do anything else with it), it becomes apparent that the law is daft....

George - you honestly expect the OP to erase his music library (or repurchase all the titles)?!?  

Absolutely, or else he is a criminal thief, who deserves to serve time in prison.

And the Crown Prosecution Service have evidence of his criminality [unless he spoofing] from his posts here. Someone should report this including the administrators of the Forum. The case should certainly be tried in a Court of Law.

ATB from George

Come on George, be real. If everyone went to prison for ripping CDs they don't own, there would be insufficient people working to support the prison population. I'm not saying I agree with ripping CDs you don't own, I absolutely don't, but giving those you've bought to the charity shop where they can fund all sorts of excellent causes can hardly be punishable by prison.

No, but you can donate it to a charity shop 

Suddenly I realise that Genghis Khan was a relatively easy going kind of chap!

Do you rip and keep the rips that your do not own the originals of?

If so then you also deserve e serious punishment, Nigel.

ATB from George

George - Good for you.  I realize you've only been back a few weeks, but isn't time to resign from the forum for a little while?  You keep threatening to leave for good...

I feel fairly sure that I'll never leave for good!

Criminals need dealing with and those who consider tax avoidance and copyright breech are only little deviations should be dealt with according to the full force of the law, just as much as fraudsters or child abusers for two examples.

ATB from George

George, just to reassure you, I have the CD of everything I've ripped (about 2,250 discs) apart from about five that belong to my son. Everything else is downloaded and paid for.

George has you one one count of complicity, one count of conspiracy, and a side order of nepotism! The other 4 CDs will be taken into account when sentencing...

And the jury will throw it out!

ATB from George

I suspect, longer term and for younger people, streaming will kill piracy anyway.  The industry just needs a way of making a profit from streaming. Physical media will be a thing of the past, for us oldies and niche markets, like vinyl and audiophiles 

An example here is that last week a friend of mine died aged 94. He was first double bass player in the Covent Garden [Royal Opera House Orchestra] from 1955, so he had the occasional £10 cheques from when one of his recordings was replayed on the BBC.

I would guess that this little bonus will cease with his demise. 

But it is fair enough that he was rewarded for his efforts when the original performance was recorded from live by the BBC or done in the studio.

He at least owned his house when died. Not a huge over-payment for a life's work in professional music making.

ATB from George

That's an unabashedly black-and-white interpretation of the law, which would easily be thrown out in any international tribunal.

By some measures, that might be construed as fascist, by others merely a foolish interpretation. And you're a better man than that.

Meanwhile, I spent the Record Store Day afternoon watching a friend's band live, who were absolutely killer, and the following act who I really liked but whose record sounded nothing like the live performance (as evidenced by their uncompressed releases having been made available on TIDAL), so will not be purchased. All of the performers were paid for their performances, pints were had, and a few records were sold as well.

Well David, I am certainly not a Fascist, so hold hard on that one at least!

I am half Norwegian, and black and white is fairly normal for them, though my English side might have been a small moderating influence.

ATB from George

Good call!