Series of dreams-Bob Dylan (bootleg series vol1-3)

Changing of the guards-The Gaslight Anthem (Chimes of freedom-Amnesty)

PRaT through the roof :-) 

So is Naim emphasis on PRAT iwrong? 

Meanwhile I'm waiting t see more musical styles appear here, instead of more of the same...

And from the range of examples so far maybe I have to take the opposite view!

well, there's no accounting for taste, in music as in everything else.

Listening to some of these samples has me somewhat confused as to what my version/understanding of PRaT is.

All music has some degree of PRaT but to me some of these examples are far from textbook. IMHO of course.

+ 1000

I understand what you are saying, but PRaT isn't really about literal temporal shifting. It's an innaccurate term we have come to adopt to describe the misucality of the system. You're quite right that each system plays music in the same time frame down to near the nanosecond (for other readers, this isn't an invitation to discuss the timing differences in oversampling algorithms of DACs).

When discussing PRaT, it is really about how the system manages to preserve that immediacy of rhythm experienced in live music. The temporal flow of music and its transients may be the same but how we experience time varies depending on the faithfullness of the playback. Some tracks are prone to lose something of this musical feeling in lesser equipment despite the timing being the same.

Audiofiles and music lovers alike are prone to using fairly bad metaphores when describing sound because - let's be honest - how do you describe the nearly indescribable? We resort to saying this amp sounds fast paced or that amp sounds sluggish and bright etc. etc. PRaT is just the best we could come up with to describe the "musical" (not technical) qualities that attract many of us to Naim.

Originally posed by George Johnson:

Let me say that as a string bass player who got paid to play in some quite high class concerts [such as those of the Birmingham Festival Choral Society, who years ago gave the first performances of Mendelsohnn's Elijah and Elgar's Dream Of Gernontius], players can actually sweat try to keep the articulation.

George, I had no idea you were so old, much respect!

Dear Morton,

Without doubt I was not only one of the founder members, but am also imortal!

Not!

Very best wishes from George

lol, we should have more alarms for repeated phrases and word on here

...such as HUGOWATCH?  ;-)

I doubt that an "H" watch could be adequately manned by just one person!

ATB from George

+1

The XRCD of Thelonious himself was the first thing I put in my player today. Without a proper sense of timing so much of the beauty of Thelonious' playing remains hidden.

My own suggestion is Pyramid Electric Co., actually the disc to follow Thelonious today. If played back on a good system, the music grips my attention, mind and soul, otherwise its just sonic wallpaper.

Try this for size!

Helmut Walcha playing the Trio Sonata Number Six [BWV 530] in 1956.

Appropriate scale [and footwork to die for], rhythmic stability with flexibility, and expressive finesse of the first quality. It does not get much better than this, and the element of clear articulation and stylishly expressively adjusted rhythm is an example for any musician. I am not sure that the foot taps in this case, but once one is dominated by the tapping foot, then music has long since left the scene and one might as well listen to African Tribal Drumming [which surely put the fear of "xxxxxx" into the neighbouring tribe but had nothing to do with music as such], but here we have great music played in a supple rhythmic way that is completely expressive and expressive of something indescribable.

Played on a Bach period organ that shows that not all organ music need be either loud or bombastic. Certainly not Bach's ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bs267MSadc

ATB from George

This is an interesting thread. It made me wonder if classical music is at a disadvantage regarding PRaT, because classical music doesn't have a rhythm group like in jazz or rock: i.e. percussion is rarely used and double basses are usually bowed and not plucked giving a more blurred timing. 

Not so skilled and/or large ensembles would be at disadvantage too producing PRaT. Perhaps this explains the success of the small and excellent HIP ensembles in recent decades.

IMO one track showing PRaT is the first movement of Beethoven's string trio op 9 nr 1 performed by the Trio Zimmermann.

Most classical music benefits from the Naim PRAT.  Just try any Beethoven String Quartet or Bach keyboard music.  But there is much classical music that is scored for sound rather than rhythm. Just take the Opening of Mahler 1, for example. For me, the Naim PRAT thing is just as much about filtering out superfluous sound (i.e. soundstage and other details) and bringing the microphones nearer the performers. 

PRaT can easily apply to classical music genres as well.. rhythm and pace can equally come from other instruments.. This is one of my favourites, Handel Harp and Lute Concerto in B-flat major Op 4, No 6. The phrasing and interplay between the lute and harp is wonderful... I suspect this was originally written or adapted from then popular dance music in the 1730s ...

My one contribution is not so much a recommendation my an observation.

Eric Clapton in the last years has become a bit dour & "minor key" & for sure has assumed an old crusty grumpy persona.

This is grumpy ol' git image is carried into his 2013 release "Old Sock" in the cover art

.......  but listen up folks,  its a real foot tapper.  the opening track is an upbeat reggae/ska beat  & if you don't tap your foot to that you have something wrong.  The rest of the album is a mix of all sorts including some real oldie stuff most of which bring a smile at least if not feet tapping.  

Some that work for me -

- Red Hot Chilli Peppers : By the way

- Lalo Schirfin: Dirty Harry Main Title

- Madonna: Papa don't preach

- The Police: Don't stand so close to me

- Vivaldi: The Four Seasons (Nigel Kennedy and English Chamber Orch.)

- Black Sabbath: Fairies wear boots

A couple more:

- Bomb the Bass: Unknown Territory (album)

- The Stone Roses: Fools Gold, and One Love

I think there are quite a few classical pieces which could be used; Stravinsky’s Rite of Spring being an obvious example.

Or how about Bartok’s Music for Strings, Percussion & Celeste, hear is the final movement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB_PTA4dGws

Also Shostakovich, here is his Cello Concerto No. 1 with the great Mstislav Rostropovich, first & last movements for the PRaT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSPO0d1SVbw

 - Recuerdos : by Murcof on 'Remembranza' 

 - At Peace ; by Ripperton on 'NIWA'

 - Gita ; by Moderat on ' ii'.

  Late night PRaT...

     Some more .

   - One ; by Raz Ohara and the odd orchestra

   - keep the streets empty for me ; by Fever Ray

   - Love me like a river does ; by Melody Gardot on " Worrisome heart '

Can't have a decent dancing music without PRAT, especially not a tango.

...a quite decent testimonial of prat