The worst day of my life?

My BMW is by far the best car I have ever had - comparing to Audis, Mercs, Saabs, numerous Japs.  Currently 325 cab. Holds the road perfectly. All the others either had over or understeer. Control, power, and comfort. Wish I hadn't been biased earlier. 

Shocked, I am. An insurance company that would act in the interests of its shareholders and executives, rather than its policyholders? What is the world coming to?

I've actually never heard of a policy that wouldn't pay for a replacement (less excess, of course) in the event of an insurable event. Seems a pretty poor deal to me, but I guess it's all priced into the premiums you have been paying.

Insurance spreads/smooths financial risk but does not reduce overall losses. I'd actually argue it increases overall loss as insurance can incentivise/allow people to be careless, lazy and fraudulent. Not suggesting for a moment that this applies to your case. I remember being particularly bemused by an ad for medical insurance where a dude was dancing around on crutches, singing and laughing because he was insured. Huh?

When you say they've given you a car to drive, do you really mean they've leased a car on your behalf.

I know somebody who had their BMW damaged by a third party, her insurance company asked if she’d like a hire car, she said yes not realising she would be liable to pay the hire cost. BMW took a month to repair the car, (replacement rear bumper). With escalating none payment fees she ended up with a bill for 8k. She was summoned to court and had to provide details of her earning over the last few years and current assets, she was told if she couldn’t prove she couldn’t afford to pay, she would have to pay.

All got sorted out in the end, she didn’t pay anything but she went through a lot of stress.

You are a very lucky fella Minh. Many people don't survive far lesser incidents and so it was probably one of the most fortunate days of your life. I have been involved in several major car accidents, both when I was a lot younger, and neither were my fault. They certainly enhance your perspective on life that's for sure. 

The second of the two accidents was caused by an old school friend of mine. He flipped his white Vauxhall calibra (remember them) at high speed whilst trying to over take a motor bike on a country lane, I was in the front passenger seat. It was a race he was never going to win so to this day I have know Idea why he tried. What I still recall vividly is how time slowed down as the car flipped, it was so surreal, and then it was impact, which happened to be a tree. By some miracle we both walked away relatively unscathed. It it is an experience I'll never forget. 

I am really glad to hear know one was injured and that you are okay. As others have said, cars can be replaced easily, us not so. 

ATB

Gingerbeard 

Well, the last few posts indicate a  pretty depressing outlook but remind me of a joke I heard years ago.

Man sitting with head in his hands feeling depressed.

Voice from "above" says "Cheer up ! Things might get worse !"

So man cheers up. And Sure enough.............

Things got worse !!

I sure hope that things get better.

In my years as a chiropractor I saw my share of auto accident patients.

I never (and I mean NEVER) saw one who didn't get screwed on the property (auto) part of the accident.

And the ones who got it the worst were either with brand new cars (like less than a month or two old) or worse, people who had an older car (say 5+ years) that was low miles and in pristine condition.  They were not even close to being able to replace what they had.  It was really unfair.

Of course that was with USA insurance companies, but I imagine it's much the same most places.

Guaranteed Asset Protection or GAP insurance is often available and is essentially designed to cover the difference between what your insurer pays out and, depending on the type of policy taken:

• What you paid for the car
• What you still owe on the car
• What it would cost you to buy the car now

However it is quite expensive imho and apparently has a claims rate of less than 10% which I presume makes it a nice little earner for the insurance companies.

In any event, if your main car insurance company offers you less than the market or "book" value of the car, and you accept, the GAP insurer won’t make up the difference but I have no idea if you can get the two insures to talk to each other to agree a value to avoid being stuck in the middle 

The insurance industry is just one giant con. Worse than 'taking insurance' at a blackjack table. Somehow banks and payday lenders - who provide truly optional services - get piloried and regulated, yet the lying, thieving insurance tossers don't.

All their promises are hollow. Take an insurance policy that claims to 'put you back on the road' with no expense, and you discover, as Minh has, and probably we all have, that their promises and advertisements are all, put simply, lies. Claim after a burglary and you get treated like a thief yourself until and unless YOU prove otherwise. Claim on a travel policy and get some article in the small print thrust back at you that, they claim, excludes your claim. And of course it's their company, so it's only their opinion that counts, despite the minuscule sentence clearly not excluding anything of the sort. 'No claims' discount builds up and is then knocked down again to zero despite something being 100% someone else's fault, and therefore a measure purely and simply of luck rather than risk. "No blame discount", which would actually make sense, and be a measure of how reliable a driver is, is something the insurance scum won't entertain, because they make so much money out of splitting claims and deciding that neither/both parties were to blame, thus cancelling the No Claims Discount of both and extorting yet more money from each. "Protected No Claims Discount" is just fraud. You claim, and your discount percentage stays the same, but - mysteriously - they find some other reason to increase your premium (now that you are tied to their, and only their, company) by far more than the alleged percentage 'saving'.

It does not matter how you play insurance companies, they win and you lose. It's extraordinary that there is not an outcry about it. 

I cannot believe that this gargantuan, seemingly unregulated, smiling rip-off gets tolerated as much as it does, can advertise the nonsense that it does, and that everyone seems to despise Estate Agents, Traffic Wardens, Bankers and so on, when clearly there is not an insurance broker who walks the earth who is not a complete and utter c**t.  (Not 'clot'). They simply have to be, otherwise self-respect and humanity would force them to seek another career. 

We have practically no choice but to take insurance policies, and yet they can do whatever the feck they like. Evil, pure evil. 

I'd like to say that this is just a rant, but it isn't, it's how I really feel, and is based wholly on personal experience. 

I don't know English law, but why not contact the other party or their insurance company directly? Don't they have to pay your damage? Your own insurance is not directly involved and should be used for cases where force majeure, an unknown person or you yourself damaged your car. Perhaps they could handle the case with the other party for you, but this is going to cost you.

I agree with Rod.

I wouldn't mention my insurance at all. I would write that they caused a crash, shortly recount the accident, that you have the following evidence and witnesses and that the cost for repair or replacement will be so and so. Give them some days to answer. If they don't answer or deny your request I would go to a lawyer or you then can still accept the offer of your insurance.

Our X5 diesel has been good. It has a quality build. Interior uses good materials. Chassis is tight and solid. But we have had a couple of small issues. The Toyota RAV4 V6 replaced did not have the same quality feel, but was absolutely trouble free in the years we owned it. Subjectively, BMW is ahead, but objectively, the Toyota RAV was flawless.

"The insurance industry is just one giant con."

No truer words have ever been written on this forum.

From my DC days, my wealthiest patient didn't have any health insurance.  I was quite surprised since he owned a mansion, several cars, a ranch, a plane, etc.  I asked him why, and I will never forget his reply:

"Because the best you can ever do is trade money with those people."

This was back in the 80's, and he further contended that most policies (then) had a million dollar maximum benefit, so he just kept a million dollars in some place earning interest and was absolutely convinced (and I can't come up with an argument against his reasoning that holds water) that over his life he would be way ahead doing what he was doing vs. paying premiums and getting screwed on the fine print.

Obviously he was uniquely set up to operate this way.  Would that I were...

Totally agree. Only insure risks that you can't afford to carry. Third-party liability, house burning down etc. Minimise the amount of cash you give to the lazy, the careless, the faudulent, insurance company executives and shareholders.

Insure only for peace of mind. Don't pretend it is shrewd financial strategy. It is a bet at best, and the odds are NOT in your favour.

The wealthy get wealthier partly because they can afford to hold risk. They don't need to insure the minutiae of life. They don't need to pay others to cover their risks.

Agree with much of that, Winky. Of course, car insurance is a legal requirement, at least for third party cover, and it's prudent to have your property and contents insured e.g. against fire and flood.  Beyond that I think pays to be very wary of the benefits of insurance cover.  I've found pet insurance a rip-off and have for many years simply paid my dog's vet bills.  An even bigger rip-off is appliance cover - fridge, freezer, TV, cooker, microwave, vacuum cleaner etc.  I regularly get calls trying to sell me insurance to cover my SkyHD box. The premiums are a joke, and I would be insuring something I don't even own!  My 'killer' response which always seems to work is to tell the salesman that if my Sky box etc failed and the company wanted to charge me to repair or replace it, I simply cancel my contract and move my business to the cable company.

I find it odd that the scandal of PPI insurance has been rumbled and the banks are having to pay many millions in compensation but other insurance rip-offs seem to continue without media or regulator attention.

Mike       

I read an article a few years back where the journalist expressed amazement at a statistic that suggested that the level of home contents insurance (as a % of households covered) was lowest in the wealthiest suburbs. It makes perfect sense to me. If you're rich and your house gets cleaned out, you just go and buy new stuff. If you're poor, it perhaps destroys you financially, or you replace it on your credit card, or you do without. insurance is required for peace of mind if you can't afford to cover it yourself.

For the wealthy, their major assets are not their houses, cars, TVs, sofas or HiFi. They are stocks, bonds, and private ownership of businesses and other assets.

I heard a while ago that a lot of very wealthy folk in London (possibly further afield) don't bother with car insurance. I guess it must be extortionate on their Ferrari's, Lamborghini's, Aston Martin and Beguatti Veron's and they can just replace them and pay out whatever they have to. Not sure how long they'll keep their license doing that, but then they'll also be able to afford the best lawyers 

i whole ole heartedly agree with Rodwsmith

For we "regular" folk I think the best strategy is to insure against catastrophes, and not expect every little thing to be fully covered.  Just have enough to avoid getting wiped out, and even then if there is a way to wiggle off the hook you know that they will.

I think some of them lose the cars, too.  Seized cars are regularly put on display outside New Scotland Yard with a notice saying they were seized for having no insurance.  The cars displayed are usually up-market. I've seen BMWs, a Ferrari and a Maserati.  Quite good PR on the part of the Met, I thought.