Err what happend to the DSD firmware updates for ND* range?

May yes but which year

Exactly.

Unfortunately our beta testing friends are not allowed to tell us anything and the list of fixes/features which members (guilty as charged) want adding to the firmware update keeps growing.

It's still in beta and there are a few issues still to be resolved. 

Well, Naim has to fix this bugs quicker if she doesn't want to lose customer base: Linn introduced room correction and other producers have added lossless streaming capabilities and DSD support.

wind is changing and Naim has to adapt.

Yes it's clear that software isn't the flagship of Naim's offering. Let's hope they will make a turnaround soon.

Me too i'm afraid.

But having said this going by the last few updates i don't think they can afford for this one to be buggy. It needs to be spot on and work straight away. So if it takes time then so be it. But it is too slow for sure.

+ another one,

I use all linn Akurate with Kudos Super 20's and Space optimised to Room and speakers selected.. 

Still have a superuniti on my second system but I am gonna get shut if it falls behind any more��

I wonder if anyone asked a similar question to this at the recent Audiobarn NAIM event? I know they were 'showing' the NAC 272 but guess there might have been some other 'Nail streamer' users there? 

If it comes out 100% bug free it will still have inferior functionality to nStream. At some point, someone in the trade or press will break ranks and dish out a good mugging to Naim for the poor user experience offered by the app. I suspect that when business development becomes thus threatened, Naim will find the will to shake themselves awake in this area. Can't fault the musical enjoyment mind you.

Harry, i don't think the trade press would dare i really don't

I expect you are right. It's precarious though.

Hi Harry,

The OP was commenting on the DSD firmware update for streamers - you seem to be commenting on the app however in what way do you consider the Naim app to be *FUNCTIONALLY* inferior to the n-Stream app?

I see you saying this frequently but I'm not sure what functionality in the n-Stream app you are referring to that is missing in the Naim app?

Phil

Hi,

As far as I am aware we have not made any official announcements as to when the DSD update for streamers would be made available - it is possible that there may have been speculation as to when it would be released which has then been taken as a firm release date but as far as I am aware we have not announced an official date...

Phil

Hi Phil !

you didn't announce any date for the next firmware release, but you should ! I'm a Naim enthusiast but I'm really fed up of using a Sonos connect for lossless streaming.

thanks, Andrea

Hi Phil

A number of things seem to be fading into history and/or have yet to be addressed.

The first and most obvious is the volume control, or (mostly) lack of it. A retrograde step from nStream. Also, in order to get to a volume control within the app it is necessary to bring up a window from a bar at the foot of the screen, which sounds OK if long winded, except that it is not obvious on some devices and/or at some resolutions that there actually is a bar at the foot of the screen to tap on. It’s something you learn in regular use but is not intuitive, not obvious to a new user or a user who maybe has slight cognitive/learning difficulties or less than good visual acuity. Yes it’s true, some people who are not blessed with perfect cognitive abilities still like music and love their Naim. And of course, once you have the screen displayed which gives you access to the volume and mute, well, l guess it’s subjective.

The lack of an iDevice status bar at the top of the screen, even a mostly transparent one, is irritating.  Checking signal strength and battery usage without leaving the app is very useful and are the first things I would look at if the app became unresponsive or flaky. It is true that it takes little effort to leave the app to check if you need to charge the device, or reset the hub/repeater but why the need to? Again, a regression from nStream.

Menu navigation is not consistent. Purely aesthetic but looks poor. To clear uPnP cache you tap on a little arrow head. To clear image cache you don’t. I know it sounds trivial and even MS are at it with Win10, but I think this kind of inconsistency looks like a rushed, unfinished job.

Other areas of general bugginess like clipped beginnings of 24bit tracks, playlists going AWOL -  sometimes partially and sudden crashes will, I am sure be chased down, cornered and stamped on.  ROVI is frankly embarrassing and I hope that will be addressed also. Dropped for preference. Sorry, drifting somewhat.

When you look at what some of the competition have done over the past 18-24 months with software (not to mention third party service inclusion but that’s another discussion) one does feel inclined to inquire of Naim if something is wrong. Not from a position of petulance so much as from a position of friendly concern. A few months back I saw a review of a Marantz amp/streamer/dac thing in one of the comics where the hardware measured and sounded well but the control app was considered poor. The upshot being that it scored lower than average overall and was criticised in the conclusion. This is the kind of scenario I refer to. And should that ever happen it will take strong money and shifted priorities to address. I hope it does not happen. I remember speaking to Paul some years ago and he related a story of Julian returning from a trip abroad with a bag full of CDs and saying "OK guys, this is happening and we need to get on it now". Lovely if you've spotted an avenue of business development but tragic if it precedes a fire fight.

All the best

I do understand that you want to know when there will be a firmware update and we announce dates / releases on the News section of our website when we have firm dates to announce ... until then we don't and until such time as an announcement is made on our website then we cannot discuss what is being worked on. 

As am I ...

 The OP is asking about DSD (which has been announced as coming) - we have not made any announcements about lossless streaming at this time.

Phil

I am new with Naim comming from Marantz and I must say i love Naim app. It is miles better than Marantz. It does what I need and it is fast.

Regarding FW update I will rather wait few weeks more but will get stable upgrade than half finished FW and then complaining that Naim released not tuned job.

This is my point of view

Martin

Well Phil,

rumours are pointing in this direction not only from Naim users and dealers, but also from the press. 

I have to say that I am struggling a bit with some of this and have to question why some of you guys bought Naim in the first place. Was it the sound quality of the kit or the software interface?

Speaking personally, I have spent nigh on 35 years building to the system I have now and to my ears it is jaw dropping at times. I never thought I would embrace streaming but I did and I think it's absolutely superb. I can sit on my sofa and access all my music including some superb downloads and its convenience heaven. As to the app I search the data base, choose, press play and it plays, I guess some of the add ins you all would like would be nice but are they really deal breakers?

As to the firmware update, I was greatly impressed when I heard the 272 and am looking forward to the firmware update for my NDS to get some of that hopefully improved sound but I am not going 'to die in a ditch over it' and can be patient. The same with lossless streaming, not sure it's for me but would be nice to have to try music before purchase.

I accept that this is a wholly personal view but If some of you guys really mean that you are lost as customers over these issues, whilst respecting wholly your personal decision, I have to say that long experience suggests that you may regret this in the future. Your choice absolutely but do you not think that it's the music that matters in the end.

Need these be mutually exclusive?

I'm one of those fanboys who is OK with the Naim App; my wife and I both can somehow find what we want to listen to, and listen to it, pretty easily.  On our iPhones and iPad.  It's all been quite reliable on my home network for quite some time now.

But I absolutely believe that both sound quality and the UI (user interface) are very important aspects to the total user experience.  The user interface on the hardware includes the placement of knobs, their size, and labels.  The user interference on the software is self-evident.  A premium product should have a premium user interface; I see no reason to argue with that proposition.  But of course, apparently, some do.  Some criticize Naim more emphatically than others re the software UI, but that is to be expected too.  

Hi Harry,

As has been discussed previously - the volume control is only displayed / active on the Now Playing screen and that decision was made for valid reasons.

We were always being asked to free up 'fixed' area in the app to enable a larger browsing area so dropping the volume control from the list browsing screens was a way to do this. Also, whilst browsing large libraries in the list view screens there can be significant amounts of data transfer (what with the list data and cover art images) and whilst this is going on there could be instances where volume control could be erratic or lag significantly.

...hmmm - not sure this is really an issue with the actual *FUNCTIONALITY* of the Naim app though I will concede it's a UI change that obviously you find irksome.

OK - I hadn't seen that one however again it isn't really a functionality issue .. again it's a UI issue that you find irksome as it is inconsistent. (Just so you are aware that we do take sensible feedback seriously I have already mailed all of your feedback over to the app developers.)

...not an issue with the Naim app but obviously it is an issue and my understanding is that it is something that has been resolved in the upcoming 4.2 release.

Playlists themselves going AWOL or the *CONTENTS* of playlists going AWOL?

If it is the contents of playlists going AWOL (as you put it) then as far as I am informed it's an issue caused by some not-quite-properly-behaved UPnP servers and not by the app itself - I know that the developers of the Naim app have been working with several UPnP server authors to try to clean up the issues that are causing that.

Random crashes are always difficult to identify - especially when they are restricted to only a small fraction of a percentage of users out there.

I do understand that when it is *YOUR* device that experiences a problem then it is very easy to assume that everyone must therefore have that problem - this applies to just about anything you care to choose to use as an example - however we have many thousands of streamers out in the field and many thousands of users of the app on both Android and iOS platforms that are working correctly so identifying and fixing these kinds of issues can take some time.

This is not something that is unique to the Naim app - if you look at pretty much any app support forum you'll see people with issues - and the devs are tasked with ensuring that it is as stable as it can be ... of course we could spend an infinite amount of time testing and then we would never release anything so there has to be a cut-off point, yes?

 ...in what way is Rovi 'frankly embarrassing'? We get a lot of positive comments about Rovi.

 ???

Thanks for your concern ... as I said, I have passed your feedback over to the developers.

I personally think that the Naim app itself is pretty good (and that's not following a company line - I could just as easily not say anything) ... as with any app there are things that *I* would like to have maybe seen done differently and I think that if you were used to the 'old' n-Stream app then the changeover to the Naim app could be a bit jarring but IMO the life of the n-Stream app had run its course and was becoming increasingly 'bolted onto'. Again, IMO the Naim app brings a degree of consistency that is far more visible and understandable when you get to a multiroom environment and that was something that simply couldn't exist in the n-Stream app - for example having the multiroom functionality in the n-Stream setup menu (which is where it was) was *REALLY* inconsistent!

Again, thanks for the considered comments and feedback...

Phil

The only firm thing about Rumours is that it's an album by Fleetwood Mac...

Phil 

Go on. Have a guess. I bet you can get it.

But if software is provided (and remember please, us early adopters paid Naim extra for it because it wasn't bundled) it should work properly and upgrades should not feel more like downgrades.

What I don't get so easily is people who buy something in expectation of a vapour rumor becoming a feature next week, and moan at its non existence from the day the gear is delivered to them. But it's a big world and everyone is entitled.

Phil I appreciate what you say, and I know our collective comments are likewise, I appreciate you passing it on and I wish everyone well.