Err what happend to the DSD firmware updates for ND* range?

+1 & 100% right-on for the rest of your post re sound quality .......

Naim gives me the best sound quality in the package I want, but more important is getting enjoyment from the music, living the presentation.  

I also get pleasure from getting the best out of the equipment - fiddling as 'erself calls it -  and that goes along with the soft & firmware,  getting involved & following the progression of developments is fascinating.  

Problem is we all get a bit over familiar with minor shortcomings & in that regard I welcome Harry's post as a positive critique of the software & app.

I'm in the "get it right, not get it now" camp, like any sane user.

However, here were three bugs introduced in the last firmware over six months ago. A bug where there's a work-around is OK for a few weeks, or a couple of months even. But six months?

I question the decision to merge these bug fixes with what is clearly quite complex additional functionality, though at the same time the ultra-clunky firmware update process (no other equipment in the house requires direct connection to a PC to upgrade the firmware - I have to de-rack my NDX) Naim have pursued would indicate that fewer upgrades are obviously better.

Mike,

Whether you believe it or not I actually really do enjoy working here at Naim and dealing with you guys - a lot of the people here I've also met at shows and events and probably will never have made the connection between your online presence and who you are in the real world.

The last thing that I would want is to get to a situation where you guys think that we don't care ... 

I am *INCREDIBLY* happy when we can get a good positive debate going on where we can get clear and specific areas identified as to what customers are considering issues - there was some good information in Harrys post that gave *DEFINITE* and *SPECIFIC* examples of what he considers to be problems for him - now I can't say that we'll make changes just because he's asked for them or flagged them up as we need to take a view on how everything impacts the plan or the design but it does all get considered.

Phil

As a former n-Stream user and reviewer, I found the transition to the Naim app very irksome (on a UnitiLite), stayed with the app for a while, but went back to n-Stream... for a while. When I reviewed the mu-so, I found the Naim app a joy to use and came around to the new presentation. The only issue I have had is with the volume bar disappearing (on a new iPhone 6, and which I mentioned in the review) ; the recent upgrade has fixed this. For me, the ability to switch between the UnitiLite and the mu-so and to do multi-room is a big plus. My other half uses the Android version of the app on an LG phone and has had no issues with it. I note that she spontaneously uses it when controlling the mu-so or the UnitiLite, which she did not do when we using n-Stream for the UnitiLite. Perhaps the cleaner interface has something to do with that.

For the apps controlling other brands of streamers that I've tested to date (Atoll, Bryston and Ceolbox), none measure up to the current version of the Naim app in functionality, stability and ease of use. They work, but are very much works-in-progress. And I point this out in the reviews.

To those who have dropped Naim for streaming, I'm very interested in hearing your views on long-term musical satisfaction. I'm still a huge fan of the UnitiServe, as I've simply not found anything better in providing the same level of engagement with the music. But I'll keep looking...

Jan

Well, I have to say that I really like the app and find it miles nicer than nStream. As part of the beta group I do realise that these things take time, but I do find the incredible slowness to integrate lossless streaming incredibly irksome- though I'm sure there are all sorts of commercial considerations at play. But to be blunt, if Linn can do it, Naim can do it. It's not rocket science. 

Hey, there's an app for that :

The dad of one of my son's friends is a rocket scientist. When people ask him what he does, and he says 'I'm a rocket scientist' they always think he's joking. Perhaps he could integrate lossless streaming with a wave of his magic hands. And get DSD working by raising an eyebrow. 

The now playing/progress/volume bar still goes missing from the new upgraded app on my iPad2 (I have reported it to Naim support). I think it is related to an issue with using Rovi.

That's an interesting and valuable comparative perspective. 

Food for thought.

Absolutely never doubted it Phil. I used to be be were you guys are in my previous life, so I can empathise.   

I'm very happy with what I'm using (incl beta) as far as straight UPnP replay is concerned;  and despite some issues, I think that, generally, is the same for most others.  

I've also used a few other apps,  & with a few exceptions,  Naim is pretty good considering its WIP.

With good positive debate - what I call "critique" - I believe that it won't be so long before we get there. 

The real frustrations seem to be around the lossless streaming questions, mostly politics I would imagine,  but as I don't use this,  that's just an observation.

Do you want some cheese with that whine . . . er . . . wine?

(Just keeping the theme going.)

Sorry. I missed this earlier.

Not being able to find album artwork and getting the alternative choices so wrong that they aren't even the correct artist. And no way of manually adding graphics - unless I've missed how to do this.

Related artists who are aren't remotely related.

Reviews and biogs that contain factual errors and omissions. Opinion stated as authoritative fact. AKA twaddle.

The omission of a facility to add text. graphics and links and store a local version which you know is factually correct and up to date. My music collection software allows this, plus a hyperlink to play.  I can import and export it all over the place. I wish I could hook it up to the app.

The uPnP server grey area is an old chestnut. Everything runs fine. Something is changed and errors occur. But it transpires that what was changed did not cause the error and what was unchanged has turned rogue. This happens all the time and will not likely change. We're all used to it.

+1

I think it's the quality of the information contained therein rather than how it purrs along. I just don't think it's a quality resource. But each to our own.

I like the app, despite its foibles, and I like my Naim gear and I don't doubt Naim employees' commitment to the cause.

My my problem is that the software/firmware development is a bit SLOOOOOOWWWWWW. I want lossless streaming. I presume I'll get it with Naim, but the wait is getting on my nerves. It's June!

Every few weeks the frustration breaks out on the forum and Phil or Paul attempt to damp it down only for it to break out again in another post, over and over again. Perhaps the wider Naim buying public are not as fixated by lossless streaming as this community so Naim are relaxed about forum moaning?

Keith

I fall generally into the 'not all that impressed with the Rovi content' camp.  When we are listening at home, I might hit Rovi just to see the year or list of musicians, but when I have more substantive questions about an album I go right to Wikipedia.

We do that a lot at home.  We are listening (maybe in the kitchen), talking about the music/musicians, and have to go to Wikipedia to answer some trivia question that arises

Allen

Nobody is closing ranks, as you rightly acknowledged in response to my previous post, it is a matter of personal opinion. When I bought my NDS, nobody promised me lossless streaming. If it is supplied then I might give it a go although the performance of the major players to date suggests that it might not be the future as most seem to think.

As to ROVI, I assume (and I trust that I am not making a fool of myself here) that this is the background metadata on the App. Sorry but I don't ever look, too busy listening to the music. Still I never read the liner notes on LPs either and they could be really rubbish.

i guess that what this illustrates is that what's important to one is not important to another. Way of the world I suppose.

Hasn't this thread turned into a boiling pot. I actually don't mind the Naim app, i do find other apps I've tried tend to show me the info i want more easily. I find with the Naim app your forever turning pages back and forth rather than being able to display within an open page. Hard to put into words.

However the problem i have with the app and streamer firmware is the amount of bugs and the time it takes to resolve them. I can't recall when the last firmware was released but its too long ago. Fix the bugs and release the firmware. Then add features to another new release. We seem to have gone from one release of buggy firmware to another to another. 

It is not what i expect of a premium brand.

Ill just add that if i buy a cheap mass produced brand, to some extent i expect problems, however more often than not I'm pleasantly surprised. When i'm paying for a top brand i expect a lot more quality than i feel i have received from my Naim.

That sums it up.

I'm far more interested in getting deeper into the music and into the artist's head than finding out what brand of guitar strings he uses. To get where I want to go, I listen. I have no desire to spend hours on another screen (had enough of that at work). I'm sure Roon is wonderful, but it's not for me.

So specifically (if nothing else for Phil's benefit), what is wrong and how does it effect your listening pleasure?

This is always an emotive subject on here, not least because we all have different needs and expectations.  I think its healthy for all points of view to be aired and treated with equal respect and, hopefully, Naim will pick up on the themes that are raised and move to resolve them.  There are a number of people involved in beta testing who will, I'm sure, testify that they are beavering away ironing out bugs and introducing improvements and there is a lot of hard work, at all times of the day and night, that isn't visible to all. That said there are clearly one or two key frustrations for a large group of forum members that need to be addressed  

I have always believed Rovi is an internet service that links to the app & that what you get is what Rovi push out.

Maybe someone can confirm how it works & what if anything can be done in the app

Cam 

listening pleasure is one part of owning a Naim streamer. Let me put it like this Ive owned many cars that have given great driving pleasure but been a complete pain to own. Now let me ask you are Naim like TVR or say BMW, i'm sure you know what i'm saying. Well hopefully 

Graeme

What is 'multi-room functionality'? I only have one NDS playing into one set of amplifiers and one pair of speakers in one room. How would I benefit from 'multi-room functionality'?

BTW I still use n-Stream (I have been scared of switching to the new app because of the level of dissatisfaction expressed by others on this forum), but how does the volume control work? Does it work in the digital domain, or does it control the volume on the pre-amp?

Thanks for any comments.

Allen, I've been waiting for the release of the new firmware before i make some decisions. However i did not realise you were a beta tester, and if this is your response, knowing what you know with the beta software then i think I'm out. I was hoping for more than just DSD64, but I think its clear that is not going to be.

Graeme