Err what happend to the DSD firmware updates for ND* range?

Yikes reading this thread I'm concerned. I'm new to Naim and I'm looking for a streamer. Guess I'm going to hold off on Naim streamers for now.  Software can be difficult, I understand but 3 years for Spotify wow. This is not encouraging at all. Sounds like my best approach for now is to continue using an AirPort Express with w4s reclocker.   

Marcus

as others have mentioned what is your priority, Naim sound or functionality.

Only you can decide

Try it for yourself. The fact that a few people have issues is no reason to shelve the idea. One swallow does not make a summer. 

I agree with HH. Yes if you definitely require the use of web based lossless streaming services, then Naim is not for you (at the moment). But if you locally want to stream your CDs or lossless downloads the Naim streamers work well and for the most part sound very good to exceptional .. definitely suggest you don't hold back if this is what you want to do.

Simon

Good advise Simon,  surely people purchase Naim streamers for UPnP replay, not web based streaming - or am I just a bit too grey & crusty to be able to see the big picture.  

Web lossless streaming hasn't been around that long & it seems to me to be still in an evolution stage. One thing I don't know is costs to the mnfts (Naim, Linn, Sonos etc),  aside from in-house development,  what cost is involved to get these services,  is it for free or is it a contract with a fee &/or co-development costs.  Another problem I can forsee is that when Naim do bring in whatever web lossless service - which I am sure is not as far away as the nay-sayers believe - is what happens when a company/service goes belly up.  what bets on Tidal lasting the course.

Mike

I understand what you are saying but my take on this is. I want to be able to sample these new streaming services and DSD, not just DSD64. Now we can argue till the cows come home whether any of this will increase listening pleasure, but if you can't get to try it then you'll never know.

Ive been told from various sources that Naim have quite a large software team compared with many other hifi manufacturers, right or wrong i don't know. If this is the case why can't they add this functionality to their products quickly for its customers to try. Others seem to be doing this.

One things for sure, Tidal and the like will not survive if potential customers cannot gain access to them.

It is without doubt a double edged sword, but to me its about choice, and i don't think i'm being given that with my Naim streamer. At the end of the day Naim, as far as i can recall, made no promise to me that they would provide anything other than the services they provided when i purchased the NDX.

This is fine, but things move on and things change and Naim can decide to provide software updates for older models or not, that is up to them. But i don't see any new products providing this choice from Naim either.

Sorry that wasn't meant to turn into a rant

After opening the post with an innocent question and coming back after 2 days I see this opened a huge can of worms.

Not particularly fussed about the Naim app either as this works fine. Someone mentioned they migrated from Marantz. I have the Denon app for my AV system (It 100% binary identical to Marantz with different logos) I can confirm that although it works fine, The Naim app is slicker and easier to use. But.. the thread wasn't really about the app - just the firmware.

Naim: I'm not complaining and am perfectly happy with my NDX and don't even suffer from a single glitch that seems to plague others. 2 years of glitch free operation. I was just curios to know when and what is likely to be included (room correction? people have bashed me for not trying it - if it isn't built in then I ain't doing it).

Oh dear now there is another can of worms that's just been opened.

Doh!

If I'm being honest I want both, with Naim sound as the priority.  Coming at this thread as a new person to Naim (Nait XS-2) I'd prefer to stick 100% with Naim. That being said while shopping for a streamer I looked at a Linn streamer and its loaded and I just figured Naim would have a similar feature set. Waiting a few months for a software update is no problem at all. Just recently finding out about this forum and reading some of the history/responses makes me pause for now on buying a Naim streamer thats all.  I may go the route of a better DAC with my Airport Express that gives me web based lossless streaming (which is my preferred way to listen to music) but I'd prefer a Streamer w/a built in DAC. 

So for now I'm just going to hold off purchasing for a little bit longer.

@Hungryhalibut. Thanks I've listened to a ND5XS my preferred choice, and I LOVE it but I'm young and want the shiny new toy (web based Lossless streaming like Tidal).  

@Simon-in-Suffolk Like you said (for the moment) that's all.  I'll just keep my money in the bank

Uh no not at all. The app and the firmware only link where changes to the API occur and not all enhancements or even new functionality always requires that. There have been many updates to the app without firmware changes and at least one firmware update I know of that had no corresponding app update.

Zen i think you'll find these were bug fixes, but I'm not certain

They're not inexorably linked.  There are two defined interface schema that define the linkage (both are defined as part of the DLNA protocols).  Each end can be modified independently from the other with out problems arising, provided use of the DLNA interface isn't changed.

There are ambiguities in the DLNA protocols (which is why apps and hardware from different sources won't always co-operate), but this isn't relevant when both are supplied by the same vendor.

I'm wondering if adding web-based Lossless streaming like Tidal requires more than just a software/firmware update.  Maybe they need to add a new board to their product line to make updating or subtracting services easier. If that's the case then I'll wait for a hardware refresh.  Just a thought that I'm sure others have thought of as well.

you may well be correct, and even if the existing gear doesn't, should niam provide all the fIrmware/software updates for free.

as i said above we don't seem to hear either way from them. So people are left in limbo or just make a decision for themselves based on no information.

+1 agreed!  

Allen, apologies, I actually didn't know what you meant (possibly my linguistic limitations?).

You are right in that that adding some new features requires change to both the app and the firmware (but for others the changes can be independent).

Bingo! That makes a lot of sense. 

Hi Allen,

You are pinning an awful lot of your comments and subsequent assertions on an *ASSUMPTION* that we are tight on *CODESPACE* in the streamers and you are basing that on - as far as I can see - your issues that you had with buffering Internet streamed sources last year.

The areas of storage used for buffering, execution of code and storage of code are not the same.

Best Regards

Phil Harris

Well - erm - no. :-)

... we *COULD* have implemented the ability to update the streaming hardware in our current units 'over the air' (as you put it) however the *PREAMP / MAINBOARD* side of things cannot be programmed from the streaming hardware side so therefore that can't be done 'over the air' and that is why you need the USB / Serial connection to program the preamp / mainboard and the Ethernet connection to program the streaming board ... absolutely nothing to do with memory I assure you.

I have just told you everything you need to know to answer your question ...

Phil

Hi Allen,

Your conversation so far has been based around your belief that we are running out of memory on units - we are not (as far as I am aware) running out of memory on units.

You know as well as everyone on here that I will not tell you what we are working on and that the reason for that is that I cannot discuss anything that we are working on until such time as an announcement is made by our PR / marketing department.

That may annoy you as you may feel that you have a right to know and if it does then I am sorry for that but that is the rule that we are given to work under otherwise incorrect or half-truth information gets out and we end up with disinformation being banded about as deduced fact.

Best

Phil Harris

My thoughts exactly although I am no expert.. So apologies if I am wrong....But! If I update my linn ADSM it does it over Internet via the Konfig software with the click of a mouse In minutes. When I update My Superuniti, I have to connect to both the Computer via a Usb , ensure connection to Internet, download programme and undertake a heartstoppingly series of instructions I printed out and whatsmore either bring the computer to the place where the SU is sited or completely unplug and take it to the PC.... What a faff.. Suggests to me there is not enough memory to carry out the process seamlessly and it needs emptying prior to reloading. I may be wrong, but if it is correct , then I guess it's going to be difficult to integrate lossless streaming services and room correction without a hardware retro. Incidentally I bought my SU 1 year before my ADSM both new , the SU is only18 months old ! The difference in technological implemention is poles apart. I have no issues with SQ on either , both superb. The wait for the guys who have just Naim streamers I can understand is frustrating. I don't want to sell my SU as its great at everything else ... But should time march on and the depreciation too, I sadly might have to , in order to fund another purchase for the same user features I already enjoy in my main system. 

Regards

ing

Avoidance of misinformation? Hmm, sort of ironic!

Still in terms of commercial confidentiality it's really the bare necessity (sorry, couldn't resist!).

H

P.S.  I admire your patience, and remember when I was doing support and being pressured to reveal future plans - wanting to tell people about it but knowing it's not a good idea!

Hi Phil !

I appreciate Naim's way of acting: Your company gives an information only when the product/service is ready to sell and only through the PR department in order to avoid speculations and misunderstanding within the custumer base.

But what it would help (and I think it wouldn't go against this philosophy) is to give a sort of timetable/pathway in order to reassure your loyal customers and avoid a possible flee of clients to other hi fi producers.

Best regards, Andrea

@Huge   lol