Qnap or Synology

Hi,

Not really sure what to make of this comment as it's a little 'general' and vague ... there are generally a couple of limitations when using smaller or older NASs.

Old NASs (such as the old ReadyNAS v1) often had a 2.1Tb maximum drive size limitation so they won't take drives larger than 2Tb however you can created a mirrored array of 2Tb (mirrored) or 4TB (striped) - in this case, if you install 3 or 4Tb drives then at best you will only see the first 2.1Tb of them. At worst they won't be recognised at all.

Later NASs (such as the QNAP 412) do not have the 2.1Tb drive size limit and can effectively take *ANY* sized drive (currently 6Tb maximum for WD Red drives) but *MAY* have a limit on the maximum volume size depending on the linux kernel that they are built on so in a 4 bay NAS you could have 6+6Tb mirrored (6Tb total) 3 x 6Tb RAID5'd (12Tb Total) but popping a 6Tb drive in the 4th bay would result in the drive not being usable i that array as it would push the volume over 16Tb.

Current NASs *SHOULD* be running on a later Linux kernel and be able to handle volumes of up to 108Tb (which, coincidentally is 18 x 6Tb drives - which is the maximum number of drives you can pop onto a DS1813+ using two 5 bay expansion units - hmmm. ) and so should be able to create arrays across 4 (or more) x 6Tb drives correctly.

There should be no instance where a NAS can *ONLY* take 3 or 4Tb drives - if it can take 3 or 4Tb drives then it will be able to take smaller drives as well as larger ones. (Seagate currently has an 8Tb drive at the time of my writing this but it is *NOT* suitable for NAS or 24/7 usage.)

Cheers

Phil

If you like DIY, you could build your own.  I built my own box using NAS4free open source software. Its very flexible and I added the hardware I wanted to use.  I use my box for backups and for streaming music/videos on my local network. I'm also using two network cards for LACP to increase performance so I never have hiccups while streaming music or videos.

Lots of good info here...

One for Phil - What would you recommend I buy now, as a NAS set up.....? For potentially feeding an NDX.

Thanks,

IanM

Hi Ian...

An NS01 of course!

...however I'm going to make the assumption that our servers / rippers have been excluded from the possible list of choices.

So ... what I'll do to see if my postings here have been at least readable is say to you "From what I've said, what do you think?" ... That's not in any way sarcastic - it's just to see whether I've made sense.

Of course, what others have said may well be just as valid to you.

Remember that in choosing your NAS you do need to take into account your collection size ... generally CDs are nowhere near 'full' and so from my experience if you reckon on about 500Gb per CD (uncompressed) then you'll not be far wrong.

Pop up here what *YOU* think and then we can discuss it if appropriate, yes? I know what I would do...

Phil

Phil,

Lols.... NS01 - No - Way - Jose....!!  

OK, guessing here - 

NETGEAR RN10200-100EUS ReadyNAS 102 2 Bay Network Attached Storage (No Disk)

Well.. its not mind bogglingly expensive.....

IanM  

OK ... *MYSELF* I'd start off by thinking what UPnP server I want to run ... that would be either Asset or MinimServer.

Then I'd find a NAS that it would run on.

As Asset is a nice simple install for QNAP then I'd go for a QNAP.

Of course if you are more inclined to 'play' and fettle then you might look at MinimServer and getting that to run on whatever platform...

Cheers

Phil

Sorry - reply not understood.... Asset? Minimserver..??

Happy to investigate a clear recommendation here.... QNAP... Which one... (think cheap...)

IanM

PS. Phil - Feel free to email me directly if it helps.....

Hi Ian,

OK - this is where I need to tread very carefully because if you take what I'm saying in the wrong way I could offend you and I really don't want or intend to ...

What *I* would do might not necessarily be the right answer for you - remember that if you are rolling your own solution then you will have to look after it and maintain it.

Your last comment is the bit that worries me - yes you can roll your own solutions and save money and get a good result but that means that you have to do a bit of legwork yourself or you can buy a 'cheap' NAS with a factory installed UPnP server and just assume that will do what you want and work the way you want and trust that the NAS manufacturer will be able to support it.

Doing it cheaply might not be doing it the best way and there is no one 'best way' either.

If you are going to use Asset or MinimServer then you are going to have to install the appropriate software packages on a NAS and configure them - this is going to mean that you will have to (probably) do a bit of Googling, a bit of hunting around on the respective forums for information and maybe a bit of support ... it's not rocket science but maybe you're not really up for that?

In that case you'll need to pick a NAS that has a UPnP server that you can get along with.

Phil

Phil,

I wont be rolling my own - but I will not blow £400+ either.  Am looking to buy an 'Off The Shelf' NAS, but one that considered good. Assume also support from a Naim dealer, who would supply me a good, used NDX.

A lot of what you write I dont understand, TBH..... 

IanM

OK - But I've already said I wouldn't use the manufacturer supplied built in UPnP server on any NAS that I've come across because we've seen issues with most of them ...

That leaves the option of using either Asset UPnP or MinimServer but then you are looking at a more expensive NAS (such as a QNAP) to run Asset on or you're looking at having to install MinimServer on something like a Synology - something that might mean getting your hands dirtier than you really want to do.

You may find that the UPnP server on a NetGear RND102 is absolutely perfect for you but there is a reason why alternative UPnP servers such as Asset UPnP and MinimServer (and our servers) exist ... if the 'freebie' ones were perfect then there'd be no need for anything else, yes?

What you're asking for - cheap, fully featured, well supported, requires no involvement at all to set up and configure - just doesn't exist. There are a number of pre-set up rippers and audio-centric NASs / UPnP servers but they're a lot more than £400...

Even putting Asset on a QNAP will mean buying something like a QNAP TS-251 with a couple of 2Tb WD Red drives and will break your £400 budget in itself - then you're looking at buying and installing Asset on it which might mean getting more involved than you want to be doing...

Phil 

Right.... Feels like I should forget it (NDX & NAS) & look at an HDX instead......

Hey ho....

IanM

But the disks are probably still SATA II (unless you have a very fancy set-up using one of the later SCSI systems) in which case the peak transfer rate is limited to 600Mbps (even for SSD).  For normal mechanical disks the sustained data transfer throughput is normally significantly less than 150Mbps.  This becomes the overall system limit, not the physical data transport format.

Hi Ian,

There's no reason *NOT* to go with a NAS and NDX but you need to make sure that you at least are able to know what you are doing and how to look after it - for example although we will try to help as much as we can we are not a support channel for either the NAS or the UPnP server if there are problems there.

As with anything - if you don't understand something then you can look into it for more information and learn about it.

I've tried to help you answer your question as much as I can - I've given you a shopping list of 'bits' (a QNAP TS-251, a couple of appropriately sized WD Red Drives and Asset)  but even then you're going to have to put the drives into the NAS, set it up and install Asset on it ...

It's not in any way difficult (I'm sure that whatever you do day to day is much harder) but I don't know what your abilities are.

If you don't feel up to setting something up yourself then perhaps your dealer will be able to assist you in setting up a NAS and UPnP server and this is something that you can obviously talk to them about.

Remember - there was a time that you didn't know how to drive ... you could either decide to stay dependent on taxis and friends driving you around or you could take the plunge and learn for yourself ... this is exactly the same.

Cheers

Phil

Ian may be a 2nd hand NAS might get you going. I'm sure plenty of good 2nd hand models available.

+1 Well said Phil

Phil,

Thanks. 

Have already emailed Cymbiosis, regarding looking for a good, used (old-ish) HDX. Price wise I think the 2 solutions might work out similar - if I add the NAS cost to that of an NDX. Fine if you already have a NAS - I don't, so its a big step.

I will certainly investigate further - no definite decisions taken yet....  

Will take my time... Thanks for your help.

IanM

I think Phil has done a tremendous job of explaining this. 

The fact is that music based on a NAS or Mac Mini (etc) always has a bit of a technical element - choice of hardware, back up, etc. If you're used to more traditional hi fi and aren't technically-minded it can seem daunting. But it's just something to learn, like driving or mowing the lawn, and it's worth remembering that setting up a turntable is also tricky - MC/MM cartridges, balance, phono stages, etc. To the uninitiated it's at least as hard.

Ian - take your time and decide with your ears. If you like what you hear then follow Phil's advice - which is mine also FWIW - which is get a QNAP NAS and install (or get your dealer to install) two WD Red disks and a piece of third party software called Asset. Then learn how to work it all. And then . . . sit back and enjoy, because you'll never regret making the change.

+1, but i would rather go Synology and Minimserver. either way take the plunge and look at it as an enjoyable learning curve, even though it can be frustrating at times.

If you can afford an HDX, why are you limiting your budget for a NAS? For that money you'd pretty much get a Unitiserve/NDX if you want a streamer.

Phil

I had one of these and it is possible to change the bulbs without removing the wheel.  The bulb is accessed though a cover under the wheel arch which you can get to with the wheel on full lock.

One tip though, make sure you have a qualified first aider on hand to dress your arm after the fitting as you will have many cuts and bruise following the installation.

Stupid design and I would say you spent your £50 wisely!

Fortunately the new model is better designed.

Richard

I did look and there was no way that even at full lock would I be able to get my tree-trunk arms and hands up through that access hatch ... not without snapping a forearm first

Halfords 'specialist' on the other hand had arms like a 10 year old girl - if there'd been any kind of breeze we'd have had to weight him down with a divers belt!

Lols. I dont buy New. I cannot 'afford' a new HDX - but I am pretty sure I can get a good used one, from either of 2 well known dealers - with full support. My CDX2, XPS, 82 & HiCap all came this way to me.

Or I could get a used NDX the same way - thee is one for £2200 currently. But I need a NAS. Or a UnitiServe. A NAS is cheaper, by a long way. But - to me - currently looks like a load of hassle. YMMV.

So right now, I favour the HDX. This could change. Partly may depend on someone who is recovering from some major medical treatment....

Actually you don't need to jump right into a NAS purchase. Why not just purchase a copy of Asset and put it on your PC/Mac/or laptop along with dBpoweamp and rip and serve to your hearts content on the computing device.

Assuming your computer can be ethernet connected to your network, you will have a very stable initial setup and get to grips with some of the ups and downs of UPNP and streaming with very little initial outlay. Fill the hard drive of your computer with your ripped files and once you are comfortable and get a better idea of your requirements, shift to a NAS, Server, MAC Mini etc. The only downside being the computer will need to be on to play music, but this really shouldn't be a deal breaker.

I ran like this for about a year using a PC in my study before getting a Server. 

Oooh... nice. I like that... Thanks @SamS....!

I still have a proper desktop PC - actually more of an Under Desk top.... Its Ethernet'ed direct to my Router. Could easily fit another HD in it, just for CD rips. PC on to play music - no prob.

OK, so SamS has put the NDX back in the race...... Like it...