TVR to return

Guys

Sincerely love your enthusiasm but I doubt it will get off the ground. TVR only had cache in it's home market and not enough even there to stay alive. Auto making is a tough business and each new regulation makes it more and more difficult. Certainly not for the faint of heart.

I just don't see it. What exactly is the market niche? Look at other low volume sportscar makers, they have fallen like the midges splatted on the front bumper of a 911 GT3 RS.

Lotus are hanging on (maybe) by trying to sell an Evora with a bodykit for £72k. Show me what happened to Farboud, Noble and many more that have slipped from memory over the years. Ginetta seem to be doing alright with stripped out racers that can be driven on-road but that was never the TVR shtick.

TVR too long from the market now to have a big enough core of old customers too. Lets face it (hedge trimming aside) they were compromised cars then in terms of quality and reliability. They never cracked sales abroad where the brand is basically unknown. It is a tough market, I reckon people now expect a far higher level of technology and engineering from sportscars than when TVR was still going. That stuff takes lots of R+D and serious volumes to maintain.

Jaguar F-type is the modern TVR.

....of course my view may be tempered by the fact I am now officially old.

I have just got vari-focal glasses, I am 50 this year and this week ordered a new car, a Volvo estate! Seat comfort, boot space and fuel economy now spur my car buying decisions.

I did own a Lotus once mind you-and still have my Stag of course.

Bruce

I love the sound from my Naim and from my TVR V8 just as much.

Loved my TVR, and it was completely reliable, but I suspect a new incarnation sadly won't survive; the days of hairy-chested sportscars are coming to an end.

Oi - I'm 55, have varifocals (you'll need to give them 3 months so stick at it), and used to have a Volvo S60 at your age. I don't think I'm old even if I may not have much longer to go.

The Volvo was a brilliant car and I loved the stereo and the seats, but I had to sell it to get a car my son could learn to drive in. Have now just acquired a new Polo GTI and am reliving my youth - so there's hope for you yet!

Vari-focals?...  

i thought all Volvo's come with a bi-focal windscreen!

(sorry, sort of joke you get if you read Bike Magazine back in the 80s) 

Riding a bike with vari-focals is interesting to the point where I went back to separate reading glasses and normal. 

Driving in vari-focals is even worse ...

Except that if you are in a Volvo the other road users just get out of the way through fear of what you might do next!

I ran a Volvo 240 for 12 years, and even BMWs get out of the way!

ATB from George

If you're having problems riding and driving with varifocals George your lenses are probably too small with a narrow transition between the long, medium and short focus. I have no problems with my varifocals driving. They allow me to see what's on the road in front of me and the dashboard instruments clearly.

Steve

Give varifocal contact lens a try George.

I took me three different styles before I was truly happy with them but it was well worth persevering. 

Dear Chris,

I am due an eye test soon, and have this idea:

Get some normal contact lenses, and then some plain reading glasses. 

One reason for me to try contacts is that am in and out of minus 28 degree freezers all day at work and it is a nightmare with normal glasses that freeze over [not just moist but frozen] as soon as you come out into ambient!

I'll discuss the options with the optician ..

I never could get on with varifocals, and though [among other defects such astigmatism and ...] I am terribly long sighted these days. I always was a bit, but it seems my focus is now fairly fixed at infinite!

Fortunately after agitating for it,  the picking sheets [used in the freezer stores] now printed in a large font, which helps everyone, and not just me!

ATB from George

George

I tried that for a while - but found it inconvenient and struggled with working and long term reading

Ah...Ogri. The theatre lights replacing the headlamp and other 'classics'...

G

As a TVR Griffith owner this news got me very excited and I'm surprised by the relatively low key response here!  The thing that always made TVR's the stuff of dreams was the fact that they were a supercar that normal people could afford to buy and run.  I always doubted that I would ever be able to afford an Aston and while I'd love a McLaren barring lottery wins that will always be a fantasy, but a TVR looks and sounds spectacular and is as fast as the most extreme exotics but traditionally costs about double that of a Mondeo. 

They really were almost unique - Lotus have built some lovely cars and I always fantasized about an Esprit but their philosophy was always less about power and noise and more about handling and feel.  As for the lovely Jag F type it's a bit like the mainstream Porsche's - fast and good looking but not as visceral or savage as a TVR - it's thus a much better choice for commuting to work but arguably a less spectacular experience for a Sunday blast to blow away the cobwebs of the working week.  I've driven my Brother in law's £186000 Ferrari and a friend's Porsche 911 turbo.  Both are probably similarly quick to accelerate and have a higher top speed than my 4.0 litre pre-cat Griff, both I think handle far better on bumpy B roads but neither feels as raw or exciting.   

As for the legislation issues etc then I thought TVR being a low volume producer (like Morgan) doesn't have to abide by the same rules/legislation as the mass market manufacturers unless that's changed.  The use of an external engine is great news as I never would buy a TVR with their own engines in.  My concern however is whether they will be able to deliver models at the double a Mondeo price point because if they don't then they are no longer a car for the everyman.  It's worth noting that in 1992 the Griffith launched at £24000 (equiv £40000 today) and they were also selling the S3 and S4 models at around £15000 (equiv £24000 today).  I'm not sure if that's possible but if they could get the price of a starter models below £30k and a higher end model below say £50k then they could very easily grab a sizeable slice of the enthusiast market.

If they drift towards the £70k level then I'm afraid as others have said that's a lot of money for an average chap and a whole host of other choices from Porsche, Jaguar etc or a secondhand Aston Vantage become an option.

Personally I wish them every success with this.  We need great British companies who make amazing products and I'm still very proud of mine - in fact I think for sheer beauty a Griffith bears comparison with anything built before or since.

Jonathan

More TVR porn (track day at Snetterton):-

I use contacts and reading glasses when necessary - no problem.

I know this is off topic, dear Lionel, but I can think of no reason why it should not work perfectly well.

ATB from George

Lovely Tony - what did you replace it with?

J

I reckon JG above has more or less hit the nail on the head re price point.  I fear for Lotus with a now elderly model range (relatively speaking) and ever increasing prices.

Cars like the 911 GT3 and Ferrari 458 are magnificently efficient machines however, they have automatic gearboxes and electrically powered steering systems (no longer hydraulic).  Other sports models such as the M3/ M4 come with synthetic engine noises played through the speakers - the volume control not being located on the dashboard, instead that function being carried out by the accelerator pedal.  I do wonder if there may come a slight rebellion from motorists about an ever increasing numb/ uninvolving driving experience.  Porsche may be asking themselves that with the new Cayman GT4 - no auto box available compared with the GT3 which has no manual box on offer.

I do hope that TVR can get the market positioning and of course the product just right - a huge challenge for any company these days - as evidenced by Lotus and Aston.  Fingers crossed.

Peter

I think northpole makes interesting points about some wanting a more raw and 'pure' experience but the truth is that legislation has made a degree of technological content necessary. Emissions and crash compliance is expensive to develop as are basic infortainment and traction control systems and the like (which I think people do expect now).

I think these issues force low volume companies to head upmarket as lower margins just cannot cover the costs. That makes them a tough proposition against the big players.

Another issue is tighter regulated roads. If I wanted a fun modern sportscar I'd buy an MX-5. Cheap to own and run, pleasure to drive and pleasures to be had within legal limits. lightweight track biased cars are another niche (Caterham etc) but that was never TVR''s market.

Bruce

Hi Jonathan, I got a Lotus Elise, but SWMBO much preferred the TVR. It was a lovely thing to drive and as you know, very flexible. I did make the mistake of ordering mine without power steering so it was a bit of a heave to park it.

I had the pleasure of going to the factory and being treated to a very long tour. When watching the guys welding up a chassis I commented that it might be worth getting a computer-controlled welding setup. The chap who was taking me round looked horrified - "These are hand-built cars sir!"

Tonym,

One of my eternal regrets is that I didn't order a brand new Griffith but bought a secondhand one.  I would love to have done as you did and visited the factory to watch mine being built - that's an immense privilege.  The problem was that by the time I was in the market for one (having run a rather lovely Sapphire blue TVR S3 for a year) it was 1996 and by then the only Griff engine option was the 5 litre and the asking price was around £33k which was just too much for a 27 year old!  In the end I bought my 4.0 litre pre-cat and ran it for a year but a bad run of bills and the need to purchase a house drove me to sell it and replace with a 1993 Toyota MR2 T-Bar.  After running that for a year or so I got the urge to drive a TVR again.  Frankly I realised that while the MR2 was quite pretty and was comfortable, nippy and faultlessly reliable it lacked any sense of driving involvement or 'occasion'.  I ended up buying back my original Griff which had come back to the dealer having been bought by a guy who had a brand new Griff on order and was just taking mine to run around in for a year while his was built.  I got her back in 1997 and have kept her ever since.

The financial pressures of an expensive career change brought me extremely close to selling her on several occasions but given she's probably been my most treasured possession for nearly 20 years I hung on and parked her up in the garage when I couldn't afford to run her!! 

I'm about to embark on a fairly extensive restoration - complete re-trim, some paintwork, new dash, possible outrigger replacement to bring her up to scratch and am really looking forward to seeing the end result.

It's literally true that one Sunday morning I popped out to the local shop for milk and fags and came back 3 hours and 140 miles later having driven from Chertsey to Selsey and various other places and back but it was a beautiful morning and I couldn't bear not to drive until I ran out of road! Needless to say my girlfriend wasn't impressed, but they're that kind of car and you'd never do that in an MR2!!

Some of the most enjoyable days of my life were spent in that car and it's taken me to places I never even expected to discover.  It's an extra-ordinarily visceral drive, alive, potent, amazing - one of the road tests described crossing the landscape in a Griff as being like rolling thunder' and I agree.  A very magical car indeed which has now accumulated many special memories. 

They're supremely comfortable on long journeys, glorious on an 'A' road and to be honest the darned thing is so beautiful to look at even after 19 years I still can't help staring at it endlessly when I park it somewhere.  It's like the beautiful 23 year old girlfriend you once had and never quite got over and unlike me, it's never grown old or wrinkly!

Jonathan