Superuniti flexibility

Hi Hugh

The Superuniti is a great allrounder, but it's really intended as a standalone player, so the first thing I'd do is set it up properly on your network and get to know it. Hopefully, you can get a wired ethernet connection to your existing network, and it's probably best to do this via a switch rather than direct to your router. Getting this setup right from the start should be your first priority. If you have a decent rack, the SU will benefit from it as much as separate Naim components do.

It looks like you have a NAS already, so I would consider using this to store downloads and/or ripped CDs, with a UPnP server installed to play into the SU. This will, if you want, make your CD player redundant, although you could also connect your CD player to the SU.

Your Pre-amp can't connect to the SU, but separate power amps can be added as an upgrade to the internal one - how your 160 would perform in this role, I couldn't say, but no harm in trying. 

Good luck!

Thanks for your helpful advice, Chris.

I have now acquired my SU. I've also made a couple of enquiries with NAIM, and provisionally selected a Synology DS414 as my NAS.

It would appear that (1) the Pre-Amp input of the SU can be used to connect to a second system. What's the advice/feedback about this? (2) a Digital Input to the Pre-Amp section can be used to connect another DAC. As it happens, I have a Lexicon Pre-Amp and DAC. Has anyone used this combination? (3) The SU Integrated Amp can be configured to operate with a second (external) Power Amp. As I have large 3-way speakers and my existing 2 x NAP-160 Power Amps, has anybody experimented with some such combination?

I think I've now got a clear picture that the SU will interface via the Synology and my existing wireless/ethernet setup with my virgin cable broadband/TV/Set-top etc, plus probably other multimedia devices. But I'm still somewhat unsure as to how far it will interface with other analogue music systems.

Skyebridge 

Hugh, hope you're enjoying the SU. 

Obviously, you need to connect it, and your NAS, to your network. Spending £20 or so on a switch would probably be worth it, then connect everything to it via Ethernet. (WiFi is a last resort) Presumably you have a CD and/or download collection, so getting that set up, and adding a UPnP server, should keep you busy for a while!

Regarding connections, you could presumably use the digital out to connect an external DAC. I'm not sure how successful this would be, but with long enough leads, you could then use the SU as a source for a second system. You can't connect a preamp directly to the SU, but you can connect a power amp. The internal one has a fair bit of clout. I'm not sure if a 160 would improve things, especially if it hasn't had a recent service. As for connecting 2 x 160, I've no idea: the traditional Naim view is that passive bi-amping is not worthwhile - but seeing as you already have the hardware, why not give it a try?

The Superuniti is really not meant to be some sort of 'hub' for a multi-room system.  I can understand the desire to use it that way, and by all means feel free to experiment.  Long runs of line-level signal usually are problematic.

Further, it's an all-in-one solution.  When you start really wanting to connect external components to it, such as a dac, power amp, etc., the inevitable question is, "Why did you buy a Superuniti?"  Again, you CAN do it, but to what end?  If you wanted to use external power amps, a digital front end/pre-amp such as the N172 or N272 might have been a better purchase.  Buying an all-in-one, one-box solution, and then hanging a bunch of other stuff off of it, seems counter-productive at best, and poor value for money.

Bart's point is valid, and as I mentioned before, the SU is intended as a one-box standalone player. What are you hoping to achieve by adding to it, better sound from the SU, or do you want a multiroom setup? 

Thanks to Chris for his further contribution, and to Bart.

However, I am now thoroughly confused by these rather authoritative statements. Perhaps I could take some of these in turn. Hopefully, numbering the points I'd like further observations on will be helpful:

 1. "Spending £20 or so on a switch would probably be worth it, then connect everything to it via Ethernet [rather than direct to your router]". The Naim SU Reference Manual (2.9.1) states, "The SU is fitted ... with a standard ethernet socket. For wired network connection this socket should be connected to a  ... ethernet socket on your network router". So why is a 'Switch' needed and/or a preferable addition?

 2. "WiFi is a last resort". Surely this depends on how good your wireless network is? I spent some time listening to my SU before buying it, playing music streamed from an Apple NAS via wireless. It worked quite well, even though the available bandwidth and download speeds were, in my opinion, meagre. My existing wireless system (811n) is much better, and I see new routers with even more impressive capabilities (811ac).

 3. "You cannot connect a preamplifier directly to the SU". The Manual (2.4.2) states that "The digital output is intended for connection to a (DAC) or preamplifier incorporating digital outputs so that SU can be used as a digital source device for an existing system". This appears to describe the situation I outlined, in which I could use my Lexicon DC2 (which incorporates a very good preamp of its own) to interface with my Nac-72, Nat-01, and various other Naim (or non-Naim) components. Presumably, this would allow the SU to 'stream' music etc to a second system, and vice versa?

 4. "The SU is not really meant to be some sort of 'hub' for a multi-room system ... it is an all-in-one solution ... a one-box standalone player". Well, I find it hard to know what this means, in view of the foregoing. Also, the Manual (5.4) states that, "The preamplifier output is designed (sic) to enable an upgrade or additional power amplifier to be connected". As far as I know, prior to the MuSo Naim NEVER attempted an "all-in-one solution", which of course does not exist anyhow in the realm of serious HiFi, given that (for instance) the SU has no CD player, no speakers, 'digitises' FM through its preamplifier, and relies on Network Attached Storage - unless it's use is confined to streaming, which really would be a huge waste of time & money.

Skyebridge     

1. A ton has been written here about the benefits of using a switch in your home network.  No need to restate it all . . . it's all here

2.  A ton has been written here about the benefits of wired vs. wifi networks at home.  But if wifi works for you and you're happy with the performance, please proceed!

3.  A 'dac incorporating a preamplifier' is not the same as a preamplifier per se.  The operative part of the former is the dac, not the preamp.  Chris was correct.

4.  As you wish

In response to your numbered points:

1. If the SU is close enough to your router to allow a direct Ethernet connection, it may well work fine. Switches are better at handling data than many routers, especially the cheap ones supplied by most ISPs. A switch also gives you more flexibility in positioning your SU, NAS etc, which may be helpful, depending on your situation. If your SU works without one, great. If you have problems, a switch may well be the answer.

2. I ran my SU on WiFi for a while. My network is stable and reliable, but sometimes, the SU just wouldn't maintain its connection. (It wasn't a bandwidth issue - on a good day, I could stream 24/192 music files.) A wired connection solved this problem - not only that, but the sound quality improved significantly using Ethernet. So in my experience, the best thing to do with the SU WiFi is turn it off and use Ethernet.

3. Yes, a DAC or 'digital preamp' will run from the SU. What you can't do is connect an analogue preamp to it. Your NAT could connect to an analogue input on the SU, and probably give you better FM sound than the internal radio.

+! for ChrisSU's very measured replies.

1. Your life will be better for a £20 switch. ISP-supplied routers generally aren't great at directing traffic, so a dedicated switch is a worthwhile investment. I know it's not in the manual but this forum isn't responsible for that, we're just explaining what's worked for us.

2. Music streaming is a surprisingly unsuited to wi-fi. Almost no matter how good your wi-fi is, problems can occur. I read people saying that they can watch Netflix over wi-fi so surely they should be able to listen to music? But they're not the same thing. Artifacts in a TV picture go almost unnoticed, but a tiny break in music is very annoying. In fact, depending on your TV streaming tech, some TVs will reduce resolution if there are bandwidth issues, and many people don't even notice - Apple TV and Samsung TVs do this. But a music streamer can't do that - it plays or it doesn't. Some people on the forum are fine with wi fi, but some (maybe most) aren't. A lot depends on other demands on your network.

3. I haven't tried this so I'm no expert, but my understanding is that a SuperUniti will output to an external power amp. I'm pretty sure it won't output to an analogue preamp in any sensible way. Maybe I haven't understood your intention here. 

4. In this context 'all-in-one' means that SU combines what might be separate boxes into one, ie power amp, preamp, DAC, streamer, radio (ish), etc. You still have to add a NAS, speakers, cables and so on. So you're right, it's not literally all-in-one, it's a phrase to distinguish it from true separates. The point being made was that most people don't add boxes to it such as power amps.

I'm honestly not sure what effect adding power amp(s) in this way would have. Guessing: either it's to replace the existing power amp in the SU, in which case why buy an SU (ie get a 272 instead)? Or it's for an additional room. If the latter then it might be quite a long line level cable . . . I don't know, it might work. Most people wanting multi-room get another streamer. You might find that selling your NAC-72 and buying a NAC-172xs for the other room is a better option than trying to create Frankenstreamer (with apologies to Mary Shelley).

UPnP is well-suited to multi-room setups.  Just put a streamer/player in each room.  For the price of a Qute2 and some modest speakers you can have quite a nice little system in a second room.

Thanks for the very useful replies.

I know plenty about Naim analogue, which I suspect will form part of my life as long as I listen to music. Owning a NAT-01 with equally superlative other Naim separates was the high point of my experience, since when I have been downsizing somewhat. However, I do still have some big speakers, and use my NAP-160's in a bi/tri amp setup. One thought for the SU is that it might operate as a substitute for one power amp, whilst connecting to/coupling with another one or two via a HiCap or Supercap connected to the relevant SU input. Another idea (against the threatened switch-off of the FM signal) is that Radio 3 (for example) can be quite successfully digitised and then decoded to analogue, providing the DAC in question and the eventual analogue tuner are both of high quality. A third idea is, of course, the logistics and economics of multi-room listening without a second mortgage - and of course WiFi figures here.

I also know a fair amount about using computers on networks, having run a business in which I had the main operations at two sites interconnected and interfacing. this was installed professionally, but I had to learn a lot in making the technology & investment decisions. So even though my home network is modest by comparison, I want to thoroughly examine the wireless/wired options - and of course the reports of your experiences are extremely interesting and useful.

I don't think I've made a poor choice in acquiring an SU. My NAS option is influenced by the fact that I still do a certain amount of professional work, and my wife works routinely with film and video: so, quite apart from the music side of life, we have call for new NAS capacity.

What I take from this discussion of SU flexibility so far is that (a) experience of multi-amping or use via a Naim power supply is limited (b) most people find that a wired network offers superior performance and the crucial advantage of no drop-outs in streaming and (c) Wireless, if it is to be employed, justifies superior components (which are available, and not necessarily very costly) and should be thought of as a complement to rather than substitute for the wired network.

Any further observations and reported experiences would be welcome.

Thanks again,

Skyebridge 

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...ly=14660154297578185

and

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...er-amp-to-superuniti