Why is a Chord Hugo better than a Naim DAC

analogmusic,

When Naim engineers design their network players/DACs, tweak their DSPs and tune their amps, they set out to achieve a certain sound signature that accords to what sounds like music to their ears. Rob Watts does the same too.

If you mix and match Naim gear with other manufacturer's gear (especially the source), you are not listening to what the Naim engineers intended for you to hear.

Naim does not produce turntables, only digital, so if you want to listen to the "full" Naim sound, you need their digital source. You don't see Naim demonstrating Statement with an LP2, do you?

I maintain my stand that there is nothing out there that sounds like Naim amplification. You may be the first person that says Linn sounds like Naim.

Dear Zeny

Maybe you did not follow my posts last year, but there was no one on this forum who thought  "Naim only" more than me. I simply would not consider the Hugo because it has no DIN connector, and I thought the DIN connector is essential. It still might well be.

I was on my way to a full Naim system, with Naim speakers, and an upgrade to NDS/555.

I had the good luck to be able to hear a Linn Klimax DS streamer and in fact I have heard this very streamer in an all Naim system with a 552/500 and I can tell you that compared to a CD555 the Linn KDS/1 was still able to play music and not spoil the Naim fast sound signature.

I understand you have a huge amount of money tied up in your NDS/555 and I Have heard it and love the sound. So you will need to ignore comments from people like me. I just cannot afford an NDS/555 due to financial commitments at the moment.

So enjoy your kit and enjoy the music foremost.

About the Klimax Kontrol, it is Linn's analog best preamplifier and I was amazed how close it is voiced to the signature Naim sound in terms of PRAT and sheer fun.

I still think most of Naim's sound comes from the amp itself and the classic Naim sound was actually the LP12/Naim amp. 

Wow, this thread grow quite a bit in a day...

To Adam's point about Chord Electronics products in genereal, I can't say I have been particuarly bowled over with their amps, although I have only auditioned in listening rooms at hifi events.. But out of curiosity when I heard their Hugo device it grabbed my attention, and when auditioning it  at home it seemed to compliment my Naim amplifier's performance wonderfully .. it felt to me  it accentuated what I like in the Naim amp sound.. Can't explain that synergy, but it's simply what I experienced.

To Wat's and David's point about FPGAs. The FPGA is an enabler and allows the DSP and data shaping for the DAC chips.  In the Hugp product theFPGA is not the DAC itself, it is this DSP and data shaper. This in itself could be achieved by several methods but DSP undertaken by modern FPGAs is probably the most efficient, cheapest and therefore the most effective way of implementing DSP for real time audio. I think if you are in the business of innovative digital audio design, you need to be able to design DSP algorithms using the appropriate design tools. If you use FPGA you need to hire the services of a design engineer who can do this. This has been so for a long time in digital electronics design. The predecessor to FPGAs was the PLA (programmable logic array) and that also required specialist skills to design for... something I had personal experience of. I always considered this the purest and neatest form of coding development.

Finally the curious development in the above DAC's DSP is the significant increase of the reconstruction filter window size of the FIR filter , the so called 'taps'. As many of us know the DAC process is a compromise, and can never be perfect. However by increasing the FIR window size, one can approach the benefits of a recursive infinite response filter with few of the downsides (including electrical noise and complexity) and therefore make the reconstruction more accurate and include less artefacts. I am sure this is part of what lies behind the performance of this DAC... And is an example of what can be done when uses the FPGA DSP technology innovatively.

Simon

Whether they do or do not think it is important, or can hire one or not, the threat in the form of the Chord Dave is coming in October.

Decisions sometimes need to me made in time (and nobody knows the circumstances back when the DAC 64 was introduced) , but what I think humbly once the Chord Dave is here, all bets are off.

On the plus side there will be a number of second hand NDS on the market at good prices 

And there are very good deals now on Linn Klimax //1 renew.

It is really a good time to buy these kit at prices never available before.

Your views, others may well have very different ones as for stupid Allen it would be stupid to make assumptions that FPGA is primarily the routs 1 for SQ

Dear Paul we all have a great deal of respect for you and for Naim.

But sometimes as they say in america, what your customers thinks and wants does matter?

I know I have made some pretty strong comments, but behind all this is a desire to see Naim improve its digital sources.

Please accept it as a loyal customer feedback. Sorry for being repetitive.

What about the Deltec converters from DPA (under Rob Watts back in the early 90's ?) - very ahead of their time. 

Indeed, I would be curious to hear a vintage DPA device now, and hear how it compares.

Simon

I'm with Paul on this. I have a McIntosh D100 dac which has brilliant SQ but the presentation is very different from Naim. Naim's take on music is something I appreciate and am willing to invest in, but not so for the Hugo. My two cents.

He does - but he's also carried through a lot of his ideas back from the early days which are very relevant. He talks a lot of sense - something that is sometimes lacking where the worlds of Engineering and audio and pseudoscience cross 

Coincidentally I briefly had an old DPA DAC (mid '90s unit) here last year and was intrigued to hear how it fared against the NDX; in short, it showed that things had really moved on.  The DPA sounded awful at first but improved after a few days, but overall it was too cerebral.  It reminded me of the "high resolution" phono stage I had "upgraded" to from the standard unit some years ago; more resolution, yes.  But where had the involvement gone?  Where was the will to get up and get down?

However, just to check how far things had moved on in the DAC world, I then plugged in an old Naim CD3 with the venerable TDA1541A 16bit DAC chips onboard.  And you know what?  While in certain respects it was a bit rough in places and a little wooly here and there, it sounded really dynamic and exciting.  It was like a turner painting - not so much fine detail but sweeping brush strokes, lovely dynamic contrast - all passion.  

So what can be concluded?  That there's more to it than just the DAC?  That different hifi companies prioritise different aspects of performance?  That for me, Naim really "get it" with sound reproduction?  

Don't get too excited Wat - Adam could be talking about the Mother Of All Streamers...

Richard, thanks for comment on DPA. I am not suprised that things have hugely moved on in the world of DACs since the 90s, and some other recent developments here and there have taken things to the next level In the world of DACs. Exciting times. 

I have an old Audiolab 8000 series DAC that was quite well regarded at the time, but listening to it now it sounds synthetic, overly analytic and lacking in rhythmic dynamics... In othe words so very un natural.. even when played through my Naim amp 

Dear Richard Dane hope it is ok to paste a part of the review of the Chord QBD 76 from what hi fi

" it's all about fluidity, naturalness and the kind of cohesion that only the very best turntables can manage.

Most digital players, even great ones such as the Naim CDS3/555PS we use as reference, sound slightly stilted in comparison."

No disrespect here, but honestly that is my finding too with the Hugo, it has that same fluidity, naturalness and cohesion and just sounds so much closer to real music to me.

I like the Naim energy and passion in the source, but there just is something magical and musical about the Chord approach.

Adil at Dubai Audio uses an album of Donald Fagen "the nightly" to demonstrate the Lp12. I have heard it and it sounds superb  on all Linn equipment. All the PRAT, boogie, timing and sheer musicality. 

The thing is this is a digitally recorded album !

So while I have tried to play this on my all Naim DAC V1/200/200 it still doesn't sound like the LP12. 

So imagine my delight and surprise when the Chord Hugo was able to replicate that same boogie, timing and rhythmic ability of the LP12. 

I always prefer paraphrasing and it tends to show understanding, but it's OK for you to post a short quote.  However, out of respect for the original author and publication, could you cite or accredit it.  Thanks.  

As an aside, I'm happy for you that the Chord DAC is doing it for you.  It would be a dull old world if everyone agreed or liked the same things.

Do they also do a Sunnit DAC?

And what about the Mulla?

It is from the what hi-fi review. Hope it is ok to paste the link below.

No, it's all about fluidity, naturalness and the kind of cohesion that only the very best turntables can manage.

Most digital players, even great ones such as the Naim CDS3/555PS we use as reference, sound slightly stilted in comparison.

No link please, thanks.

Picked up a 2Qute today.

I'm leaving it running over night and tomorrow we are out so will have an audition on Sunday.

It has some bits and a bunch of wire and junk.  Also it has a doohickey and a thingamajig.

Kevin, I guess the post that this related to has been deleted??? I am none the wiser on what you are wanting to say...

How's it going Howard?

I have been listening on and off, it is an improvement over the DacMagic 100.

Certainly swings along treble is sweeter and the bass is full and firm.

Only thing I'm struggling with are the sample lights, there is one LED for input indication, a 3 way device that shows all to make white , the green and red  for other inputs all light so that is fine.

I'm making the assumption that a input from a MacMini playing iTunes AIFF CD rip should indicate a sort of rosy coloured light for 44.1 sample frequency, but the only other light showing in the "window" on the 2 Qute is white. Instruction booklet (sheet) doesn't have white as an option.

I'll attempt to play some HD tracks if I can find them, see if anything changes.

BigH

i believe you should be looking at the overall glow in the window for the sample rate rather than the LEDs within the window. It does look a little confusing, Hugo has a separate window all together.

Graeme