Why is a Chord Hugo better than a Naim DAC

James - its probably more to the impedance mismatching allowing circulating RF currents to flow - a bit like the mains hum effect when the ground is broken - but at HF. However any RF produced by the Hugo (like just about any other device with a high speed digital clock ) will reflect back as well as potentially affect the gain stages of the NAC. I understand that RF started to become more troublesome with interconnects with the advent of CD..

I guess in most circumstances you don't notice this or accept as normal - ie this interconnect sounds brighter that this one - or this interconnect is grainier than this one  - but we are at such a high level of performance it might have become more apparent - and clearly the Hugo was not designed to specifically connect to the NAC and vica versa.

I suspect impedance mismatches at either end of interconnects have the ability to cause quite a lot of issues or colorations.

Simon

I'm pleased my experiences have resulted in a positive outcome for you Simon. 

The 2Qute and SL IC have been running almost continuously since last Thursday and are now sounding very good indeed. 

I had a little play around with the Hugo, 2Qute and various combinations of cables last night. I'm going to post my findings with the cables on the SL thread but with regard to the DACs I did find a small difference between the Hugo and 2Qute, but it was marginal. The 2Qute has a sharper more defined top end and slightly deeper bass but the mid range was marginally better on the Hugo. The differences are only noticeable on direct comparison and both sound good in their own right.

I'm delighted with the 2Qute and SL IC combo which has really lifted the performance by another notch. All areas are improved with better clarity at all frequencies along with great bass definition and timing. I'm hearing subtleties in recordings I haven't appreciated before. I have to admit the narrower volume range is a little niggle with the 2Qute but that's the only negative.

I'll have to do another bake off with a 555. 

Steve

Makes a lot of sense. Good find Simon 

Yeah it's a good cable isn't it Steve?!  ATB Peter

This matches my findings going from Hugo to 2Qute. As I'd introduced the HiLine also I couldn't be sure it was the Dac alone.  Sub-bass on some tracks is more evident and musical. The bass may be the thing that is recalibrating the perception of midrange but until I get the NDX back in to streaming  duties I can't be completely secure in this thought.

G

Graeme, on a few recent listening sessions I have concluded the Hiline might not be optimal for sub bass (and upper mid) between the Hugo and NAC. 

With listening to the DNM lead I noted the Hugo (deep) bass was more defined and less bloated/slow. An example of this is the ease of hearing drum tuning and timing and pace of the drummer, and also live vocals without a 'pop shield'  on the mic.. you can hear the singing phrasing and breathing far more as that low level bass rush or pop... I found this was just hinted at on the Hiline unless really obvious on the recording.

i also note with the Hugo and Hiline there is perhap a more prominent upper mid, again this went with the DNM. Stringed instruments sound more like natural strings.

Perhaps in addition to the possible  RF issues mentioned earlier, there is some capacitive or inductive loading the Hiline has when connecting the Hugo to the NAC that was masking or colouring the info.

Dont get me wrong the Hiline was superb with the Hugo, and I could have lived with it for ever.. But after experimenting having read Steve's comments it might be hard going back to it now.

Simon

I've had the Hugo and 2Qute at home for more than two weeks now. They were both brand new, so I let them run in 24/7 for about 10 days and only started comparing in earnest a couple of days ago. To be frank? After extensive listening I find them to be mighty close to my nDAC/555PS - through a naked SN1/NACA5/Totem Forest that is. In all cases the source was my CDX2.2, connected via a Naim DC1 (BNC-BNC).

The 2Qute & Hugo seem to have some more resolution and a drier bass. The presentation is a tiny bit more sterile than that of the nDAC/555PS, which delivers a slightly fuller bass and on the whole a slightly warmer presentation. But the difference to my ears is rather slim. Once you take the comparison out of the assessment picture and just listen to either DAC on its own both the Chords and Naim DAC/PSU combo are top class and present a very beguiling and analogue sound. I found myself torn between either option, liking the Chords a lot. Ultimately, though, I feel I prefer the sound of the nDAC/555PS and I will keep that combination for now. Maybe I need to come back to this comparison again another time, e.g. when changing amplification.

Any way you look at it, though, the two Chord DACs offer exceptional quality at a comparatively moderate investment. If I was looking to buy a DAC new today, I would most likely go with one of the Chords, simply because they are a lot cheaper than the nDAC/PSU combination. Naim really got a serious competitor in their front yard and one would hope that they are working on delivering a stunning DAC to reclaim the crown or extend the lead, depending on how you feel about the Chords. And it better be moderately priced too. If ever there was a serious challenge, this must be it. 

Just my 2 € cents

tp

Totemphile, yes I used to run the NDAC/555PS, I liked it, it had a strong deep bass, but a slightly thin lower mid.. So I felt it wasn't the best for voices.. I also found it a little monochromatic in the higher registers... and that is where I fell in love with the Hugo, all those timbres and textures came alive, and the Hugo had a warmer lower mid, which really brought female and male jazz voices alive for me.

Yes the Hugo doesn't have the the slightly larger than life bass kick of the NDAC, and I did miss that a little.. In fact I noticed that when chosing between NDAC and NDS a few years ago.. but the warmer mid and those textures and organic connection really work for me with that little silver box.

But with Naim you do need to watch RFI with the Hugo audio interconnect as well as set the Hugo gain for optimum output for the NAC if you are to avoid a slightly bright and flat sound, I certainly wouldn't call Hugo with Naim plug and play to get the best from it. Get it right however and you should be in sonic bliss.

Simon

(copied from other thread for completeness)

The ND555 will bring you back in the camp of fathful 

I don't understand all this fixation on DACs. Sitting here I've just downloaded a Tinariwen album in 96k to my laptop, copied it to the NAS in the dining room and am playing it now, all within 10minutes of buying it from Qobuz and paying with PayPal. It sounds wonderful through my 272 with no Hugo, 2Qute, Dave, Henry, Sam or Fred anywhere to be seen. I've owned Naim since 1983, so could be described as a traditional customer. The 272 is one of the finest Naim products I've owned, so they are certainly not moving away from me. Though I'm 54, I can just about cope with all of this, so long as I angle my varifocals correctly. 

Wat, I don't perhaps disagree with your sentiment, but probably luckily for most, there is very little on home networks discussed here as quite frankly much apart from the very basic is irrelevant for home audio.. But NASes, computer audio software/hardware and metadata do come up at a predictable rate.

Simon

I think they will, why else would they have produced the NDS with a digital out? It is bound to come.

Only problem? It is going to cost a fortune and will require a 555PS with two Burndies to sound best. Better make that 2x555PS, one for the digital and the other for the analogue section. Oh wait, you can put two 555PS on the NDS as well to provide the best bit stream on the planet. A super, duper 6 boxes DAC and bit streamer at the cost of how many Pounds in total? Damn right, very, very expensive.

All of a sudden that GDP8K Dave looks like a Steal! And it just might sound still better too...

Me, with 50th birthday party over a decade ago (but wonderful sounding music, my system played outdoors for the one and only time - does away with room effects, especially with lots of soft hedges etc...), I've been Internet banking for at least 20 years (better service than any high street bank experienced before - not sure of relevance, but Wat mentioned it!

What I want out of recorded music is realism, and to be able to have an experience as close as possible to being there. Vinyl was good, apart from eventual deterioration of favorite records, and ever increasing volume of storage. CD took until the Cambridge CD2 to sound good to me. Shearne audio player that replaced it when it dies sounded almost identical. And ND5XS to me sounds a pretty close match, too, so quite happy when I got that as a replacement for the Shearne when it died (or rather when not returned by Zia Faruqi of Tube Technology fame who had it to repair, apparently as one-time manufacturer).

Ripping music to hard disc just seemed to be logical instead of suffering mechanical drive deterioration every 10 years or so, clearly the future of music storage.

it got interesting when I had a chance to hear the Hugo, sounding enough better to be worth the (relatively modest) cost. The Mac Mini question only arose when I was trying to find a better server solution, when the extremely modest cost of Audirvana seemed worth a try! but not as good as the ND5XS into Hugo. Since getting the Gustard USB-SPDIF converter/isolator I've been a bit tied up, so the jury's still out on whether it matches the Naim. If it doesn't, then I stick with what I've got - no itch to spend more, but if it matches or improves, than Naim have something serious they need to beat for the future. Maybe they're working on it...

Going back to start of this post, maybe my garden experience is telling me to have a play with room correction - I just hesitate because in playing with speaker design a couple of years ago, tri-amped with digital crossover that allowed parametric EQ I tried setting for a flat response at listening position and it sounded simply awful. But there could be many reasons for that, and even Dirac advise against single spot EQ. So maybe it's worth trying Dirac Live with the Mac Mini - and maybe Naim might be assessing comments here, and what Linn have been doing.

About time you got that out of your system Wat! 

Perhaps the defining difference between the Hugo and the NDac is wether the Naim dc1 cable is used or not.  The Hugo doesn't have a bnc connection but the best connection for the NDac is its bnc.  Naims dc1 cable is the ugly twin sister to Naims Naca speaker cable and any attempt to properly listen to the NDac with it connected is compromising its ability . Don't spend thousands on a power supply just ditch the Dc1 and get a better cable and really hear it.

The 2Qute has a BNC dig in. For the Hugo I used the DC1 BNC with an RCA adaptor as well as my Dr. Gert Volk modified Sonos ZP 90 connected via a DC1 RCA cable. The differences are negligible. Even using a cheap optical cable still sounded great. So I wouldn't get hung up about that particular issue too much. 

What cable are you suggesting over and above the DC1?

Maybe a new SLDC1 will be shipped with the SuperDac ?

in honesty, I have not had a Hugo in my system to compare - but I have had the naim dc1 cable.

most of the comments I have read against the naim dac are the same that I felt about the dc1 cable against other digital bnc cables that I tried with the NDac .

using unitiserve as source into NDac with the dc1 I found that upper bass was a bit flat, lower bass was good, general midrange was ok and treble and upper treble monochromatic and felt as if the air was sucked out of the room.

Changing to a Nordost Heimdall 2 bnc cable gelled it all together for my ears. 

I have many digital cables in my toolbox of several makes/prices as well as home brew. Yes the cables do all sound subtly different into the NDAC and Hugo and other DACs I have owned.. but it is subtle compared to the differences from the DAC itself. On balance I found a choked DC1 best between NDX and NDAC, I also used a RCA to BNC DC1 for my Hugo.. it was great but was quite a heavy cable and slightly too long for my setup with the Hugo. I tried a Gotham digital cable, again RCA to BNC between NDX and Hugo but only 30 cms long ..it was lighter as well.. I also choked it.. and that sounded subtly sweeter in the higher registers and looked neater than the DC1 in that setup.. I preferred it so use that now.

Simon

Hi Gary - Good though it is The bottleneck there is the digi-out of the UQ2. Having had both the UQ2 & NDX, Hugo only reveals its full potential via NDX level feed - ime.

G

Gary - I never thought I'd read this

S

Very wise.. Just enjoy..and unwind with a nice glass of your favourite wine or beer 

The trial (brand new) 2Q arrived yesterday and I immediately plugged it into the rig (NDX/XP5XS/282/250.2 non DR and MacBook Pro with new SSD clean install and optimized for music. Using a Chord Chorus RCA/RCA as its the only non DIN I have. NDX to 282 is Chord Sarum TA DIN. So far have fed from NDX coax, Sonos Connect coax and MBP USB. The difference I hear is the 2Q has a more forward presentation via NDX slightly less so via MBP/USB and louder at the same volume. Really, not a game changer so far with NDX 4.3. To me NDX 4.3 is clearly better alone than with NDAC (hence my tread several days ago regarding NDAC FW update)? It's early but for the money it's a hell of a DAC and super cool form factor. Except for controlling via the PC which is a pain compared to NDX (sorry Wat... give me some pointers) it's a straight forward device to use. Both Audirvana and JRiver iOS remotes are $10 but the main software is free to try...bummer...however Audirvana just gives a measly 2 weeks trial. It's early so 29 days to go but the NDX/XP5XS is pretty damn good but if one is PC or Mac only hard to beat the 2Q for performance/$.

M